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Comments by RichardHutnik

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Seirawan ChessA game information page
. invented by GM Yasser Seirawan, a conservative drop chess (zrf available).[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Mon, Mar 24, 2008 11:50 PM UTC:
George Duke, thank you for the comments.  I just wanted to add a few things in response:
1. I think you are getting the idea of what is attempted here.  I believe starting with a few, and then growing to 25 works.  
2. The Seirawan drop (version of gating) is as you described.  It is one of the least disruptive versions and a natural evolution in chess.  In addition, it provides a way to get more piece into chess.  Other attempts, outside of a limited zone drop into start areas (at start or during the game), doesn't expand the opening book, causes the initial piece balance of pieces to change, or changes the initial pawn structure.  When you go to a larger board, you end up with the complaints about the knight losing power, pawns unprotected, or being forced to deal with the name that shall not be named, for legal reasons.  The larger boards also don't add a way to make chess expandable. either, although it extend the life of chess.  Drop and gating ends up making for a way to bring new pieces into just about into chess, in the least disruptive way.
3. I am of the belief that the consensus method, which is an evolutionary one, determined from a lot of play is the best at making changes.  It is how chess managed to grow and evolve over time, surviving the migration to mad queen.  Other methods force things, and aren't natural.
4. I am not going to say a static/fixed opening lacks creativity.  What I will say is that it creates a community that is used to a fixed configuration, and makes it hard to adapt to any needed changes, although changes can happen and does buy you a bunch of times (a few hundred years maybe).  The fixed position in chess results in any changes to chess now being marginal.  There is no smooth way to experiment and while keeping the foundation in order.  I believe gating and drops, even if restricted a lot of ways, offer a chance to do this.  Even if such is used before game begins, it helps.  Let's just say that Chess960 is in the drop family, for example.  It is just that where the pieces are dropped occur before the game begins, and not in the control of the players (done at random).
5. I know people might be upset about the whole 8x8 board as a start.  This is done for pragmatic reasons.  It doesn't mean you only have to use that board, but it makes it easier to get people to migrate over as a starting point.  What is looking to be done with IAGO Chess is to allow a variant class to have larger boards and so on.  As for there being 9x10 of Chinese Chess, and 9x9 of Shogi, I will say the IAGO Framework can work with these games to create an IAGO Chinese Chess and an IAGO Shogi.
6. IAGO stands for International Abstract Games Organization.  It is mean to give all abstract strategy games that don't have an association for them a home, and coordinate efforts between games that do.  This whole Capablanca on the 8x8 board came about due to issues it ran into looking at ways to do Capablanca chess, and finding out there was rejection on the Seirawan chess people to have anything to do with the IAGO World Tour, and the chess variants community.
7. Yes, I have mixed feelings about Seirawan chess.  I like the game alot.  I believe that it could serve as a foundation for a LOT of chess variants and be a basis for a migration path for chess.  However, the word from the Seirawan chess people was 'get lost and keep your chess variants away', so it was time to move on.  End result is you see an interest in Seirawan chess, but also the idea to be similar to Seirawan, but friendly to variants and also provide a migration path and frameworks for chess to evolve and bring all variants into IAGO. 

Let me sum up the one new rule brought into Chess via IAGO Chess: Thou shall have your piece mix match up with the rules, and not force people to flip a rook and then require it to be a queen only (gee, what happens if someone wants 3 knights on the board?).  There are other elements in the base rules, that are recommended, but mutable for variants.

If you want to see the rules to IAGO Chess, they are up on chess variants, and can be found here:
http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSiagochesssyste

Feedback is definitely welcome, as is playtesting so we can make tweaks as needed.  I suggest people start off with B-Class or C-Class rules first, before doing tweaks.  I am hoping to get a Zillion adaptation done soon for this.  Need to figure out how to do the gating for the game.

Falcon Chess. Game on an 8x10 board with a new piece: The Falcon. (10x8, Cells: 80) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Mon, Mar 24, 2008 11:56 PM UTC:
Pardon the plug Mr. Duke, but I want to say your Falcon is welcome in IAGO Chess, if you want to play around with it there.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Tue, Mar 25, 2008 12:03 AM UTC:
I just want to add here that the rules for IAGO Chess are up on the web:
http://abstractgamers.org/wiki/iago-chess

You could definitely do a V-Class (or X-Class to start) version of IAGO
Chess using a 10x10 or a 12x12 board, with all the multiple short range
pieces, and then use gating and drop, or just one, or limit drop to the
start of the game to certain square, and then roll in other possible
pieces.  Shoot, if you don't want to do any drops or gating in your
variant, don't.  Just turn off these options in the B-Class rules.  You
can even change how they work if you like.  Gating and drops are suggested
though.

The B-Class (Basic) and C-Class (Classic) versions start with an 8x8
board, and just the Capablanca pieces, for convention purposes, and
ability to have readily available equipment.  This isn't to say that IAGO
Chess is just limited there.  It is just, we need to do something to at
least get Capablanca pieces available for people to be able to acquire and
use.

IAGO Chess System. http://abstractgamers.org/wiki/iago-chess. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
richardhutnik wrote on Tue, Mar 25, 2008 03:20 AM UTC:
I believe I have found another game that uses gating for getting pieces on
the board.  The game is Bosworth.  Please comment:
http://www.otb-games.com/bosworth/rules.html

This doesn't appear to be a new concept.  Only this case, it is required
every turn.

Seirawan ChessA game information page
. invented by GM Yasser Seirawan, a conservative drop chess (zrf available).[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
richardhutnik wrote on Tue, Mar 25, 2008 03:23 AM UTC:
Anyone want to confirm whether or not Bosworth uses the same type of gating that Seirawan does? Only difference is that Seirawan chess makes it optional. Here is a link to Bosworth off this site:
BosworthBROKEN LINK!. Commercial multiplayer chess variant for two to four players using cards as pieces.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
richardhutnik wrote on Tue, Mar 25, 2008 03:27 AM UTC:
This game appears to have used the concept of gating well before Seirawan and IAGO Chess uses it. It is mandatory every turn though you have reserves. Bosworth has been around, it appears since 1998 at least. Here is discussion on gating:Reply View
[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Tue, Mar 25, 2008 03:31 AM UTC:
Hey Gary, can you get this in the Wiki definitions, if possible?  Also,
please change D.

Anyhow, I think I have found gating dating back to a game in the late
1990s on here that uses Gating in the Seirawan chess way.  That game is
Bosworth:
http://www.chessvariants.org/index/external.php?itemid=Bosworth

The only difference between Bosworth compared Seirawan and IAGO Chess, is
that you had to gate a piece in every turn you had one in reserve.  That
is it. So, in this regard, there isn't really much new under the sun.

European Chess. A multiplayer, different armies form of chess. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Tue, Mar 25, 2008 06:12 AM UTC:
Interesting. This may be the Cosmic Encounters of chess. Worth considering and checking out. I am curious how the sides may end up being balanced though.

Rich Hutnik wrote on Tue, Mar 25, 2008 04:11 PM UTC:
Ahh, that explains it.  I didn't read through to the end.  It is worth checking out sometime.  I wonder if someone could do a 2 player version also. Wait, IAGO Chess could accommodate that :-).

In regards to the Turks using gating, it does look at least like it is a drop.  If it involves placing a piece in a space just vacated by another piece, that would be gating.  Gating is a move connected to another piece, as I see it.  Castling and pawn promotion would be varieties.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Tue, Mar 25, 2008 04:49 PM UTC:
Gary, I would change the wording of the gating definition to be something
like:
Gating - 1. v. A specialized version of a drop, where a piece or pawn
[usually in reserve, a pocket piece] is place on a square, usually vacant,
as designated by the rules for that specific game which involve at least
one other pieces on the board. A gated piece, for example, could possibly
enter a game by one or more of the following methods as designated by the
rules: (a) the starting space of a piece or pawn that just moved; (b) a
space which was just vacated by a pawn or piece (not necessarily the
starting space), (c) a vacant space which is under the influence of a pawn
or piece (a projected gated piece); (d) replacing a piece currently on the
board that reaches a one space of a set of spaces (promotion); (e) the
teleporting of a piece on a board to another square on the board (example:
castling).  Gating is normally considered an exclusive move type, but may
be combined with another move type, if the rules permit.  Typically only
one of these methods would be expected to exist in a given game which
deploys gating.  What differentiates gating from being a drop, is that
gating is governed one or more pieces on the board.  Without this
relationship to a piece or pieces on the board, the move would be a
regular drop, as is seen in Bughouse or Shogi.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Tue, Mar 25, 2008 11:40 PM UTC:
Charles, thank you for your message.

To have a game be able to go from A-Class into either X-Class or V-Class there is only two things that need to be done:
1. Make sure your game equipment matches up with your rules, and rules match up for equipment. In other words, you want to do promotion, make sure you have the pieces to cover it. Don't have as standard chess does where people need to flip a rook to be a queen, and the rules say nothing on this.
2. Look over the B-Class rules. State which ones you are not going to use, or change, and which you are going to keep. In other words, are you using drops and gating, or just one, or none? If one or the other, are they being redefined? Also, if you are going to mix gating with other moves, or drops, please state that also. It is best to have this in one section of the rules, but isn't that critical also. Just the first immutable rule needs to be done here.

Do these two things, and the game goes into X-Class, and then eventually be a V-Class, once it is shown to be a solid variant. You can even keep your board for the X-Class or V-Class. I would say also, make sure that your game will be ok. The object of the framework is to provide a way to add new pieces later, and be able to catergorize what kind of game it is. All your other rules also would fit in.
If the chessvariant gets integrated more into IAGO and the IAGO World Tour, a lot of the thumbs up designers will end up becoming V-Class rules, rather than X-Class. There isn't much difference here, except one is shown to be established, and the other is experimental.
Please let me know if this cleared up. In one sense, IAGO Chess doesn't say a lot. In another it can be restrictive. Also, I should add that the whole framework needs to be tested out by the community and games played in it. It is up for modifications. What was listed is the starting point of a discussion. I am sure it is going to need a bunch of rewording to, and things crystalize and likely fixing some typos.
What I want people to see is IAGO Chess is meant for a way for people to get integrated into the chess world better, not some sort of thing that keeps you out. It does provide a structure in order to help, but allows freedom to deviate, and gives you a place to land when you do, and still be accepted. It is meant to add greater granularity between the variant and regular gaming worlds, to facilitate growth.
Again, thanks for the message. Oh yes, and review the rules on the site again here: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSiagochesssyste

Seirawan ChessA game information page
. invented by GM Yasser Seirawan, a conservative drop chess (zrf available).[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Wed, Mar 26, 2008 06:13 PM UTC:
The Seirawan pieces are available there. But if the Seirawan camp is going to forbid variants done off their games, then the variant community won't be able to use them. That is one of the reasons for IAGO Chess.

IAGO Chess System. http://abstractgamers.org/wiki/iago-chess. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Rich Hutnik wrote on Wed, Mar 26, 2008 08:10 PM UTC:
I noticed that the original rules for gating were wrong.  They have been changed:
(a) Gating: These pieces may enter the game via gating (piece in reserve
comes in and takes start space of piece that started in back row, as that
piece vacates its start space). [Mutable]

Gating is NOT meant as a way to swap pieces out.  It is meant as a way to enter a new piece into the start space of a piece as that piece vacates it.

By the way, I have been comments IAGO Chess is not original, does what has been tried before, is to restrictive, and also too ambitious.  I was also told I needed to do more of a 'baby step' before attempting this.  Please understand that this is meant as a framework for future work, and I am open to suggestions people would have for it.  It is also meant as a way for IAGO to classify chess variants so we can have different champions over the games.

In other words here, it is meant as an incremental solution to the needs of IAGO and the chess variant community.  I suggest people to PLEASE input here with your ideas.  Don't just blow this off as nothing special.  But, that is your choice in the matter.  I will add that I am trying to get a Zillions adaptation done.

Seirawan ChessA game information page
. invented by GM Yasser Seirawan, a conservative drop chess (zrf available).[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Wed, Mar 26, 2008 09:33 PM UTC:
One can view the B-Class version of IAGO Chess as an attempt to have an 'open-source' variant of Seirawan Chess, using the more traditional pieces, and also framing the rules so they are more variant friendly.  The fullness of the rules is a framework for integrated variants into IAGO also, so that is a plus.  There is only one new rule added that is more of a statement of what variants should be, make sure your pieces and rules mix.  In other words, don't do like standard chess that can theoretically allow people to have 8 queens, but only provide one with the game.  And do regular chess rules say anything about flipping a rook to give you another queen? 

At this point, I am not worried about Seirawan Chess.  I will be going with IAGO Chess.  If Seirawan Chess people happen to want to do anything with IAGO, they are free to get involved.

IAGO Chess System. http://abstractgamers.org/wiki/iago-chess. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Rich Hutnik wrote on Thu, Mar 27, 2008 02:13 AM UTC:
Hello George.  Thank you for the comments.  I would to comment on what you wrote:
1. I am sure drops, in all their glory, are not new, even drops into a zone.  I do like the term 'back-rank gating' to describe how Seirawan and IAGO Chess do it.  Seirawan is an optional version twist of what is actually in the commercial Chess variant Bosworth.  What is done here with IAGO Chess is try to have the rules acknowledge this, and have a default position of providing a restricted version of drops and gating.  I will say it is NOT new.  It is just done there, with B-Class IAGO Chess as a way to acclimate people to it.  On this, it should be noted that B-Class isn't the only version, and it is NOT meant to say that one can't use a larger board.  It is just the natural next step off standard chess, that makes for a readily available board, and the need to just add two new pieces (I would go with the Empress/Amazon) as a third, to cover the M-Class version.  This is meant as a STARTING point. 

Let me add here regarding what the back-rank gating and drops in IAGO Chess provides (Seirawan, at this point, appears to be a strictly as is, and not to be changed):
A. It allows for players to experiment with new pieces.
B. It allows a handicapping system currently missing from chess.  By using this version of gating, one could then mix up the reserves what pieces can come into the game.  You don't change your default position on the board, BUT you are able to change it in the reserve.
C. Rules governing how drops and gating in IAGO Ches can be modified per each variant in it.  Some could get rid of both.  Others can use one or the other.  And other rules can even change how either or both work, making gating or drops restricted to a single space, or having gating tied to a piece in particular, that acts as a transport vehicle.

2. In regards to switching, which recently popped up in Reformed Chess with pawns, I am fully in favor of it as a Mutator that can be used in V-Class (or possibly M-Class).  It is a great thing to add to mix things up.  I don't believe it should be codified though.  I also believe you can play a version of chess where it may or may not be in the game.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Fri, Mar 28, 2008 02:42 AM UTC:
If any novices want to be paired with a designer, feel free to get paired
with IAGO Chess and play out the B-Class.  I would love to hear feedback. 
As soon as I can get a thing or two tweaked in a Zillions adaptation, it
should be good to go.  I do want to get the recycling working correctly on
it, before it is up.  As is a guideline for B-Class and greater (outside of
V and X Classes) the piece mix and the rules need to match up.

IAGO Chess System. http://abstractgamers.org/wiki/iago-chess. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Rich Hutnik wrote on Fri, Mar 28, 2008 03:30 AM UTC:
A sample game of IAGO Chess run with Zillions playing both sides.  This game didn't use the drop feature of IAGO Chess.  Feel free to review any who have Capablanca chess sets.  I will look to get a version up in Zillions once I am comfortable with it (I need to tweak the promotion rules for the pawns).  It is close, but I wanted to get this up now for people to see how a sample game goes.  And yes, Zillions does it usual Knight happy opening.  However, this doesn't always happen.  I will be posting in another post my experience watching Zillions play a bunch of times.

1. Knight b1 - c3 
1. Black's Turn: Knight g8 - f6 

2. Knight g1 - f3 = Knight 
2. Black's Turn: Pawn e7 - e6

3. Pawn d2 - d4
3. Black's Turn: Knight b8 - c6 

4. Bishop c1 - f4 = Bishop
4. Black's Turn: Bishop f8 - d6 (Gate in Archbishop to f8)

5. Knight f3 - e5
5. Black's Turn: Knight f6 - d5

6. Knight c3 x d5
6. Black's Turn: Pawn e6 x d5

7. Rook h1 - g1 (Gate in Archbishop to h1)
7. Black's Turn: Pawn g7 - g5

8. Bishop f4 - g3
8. Black's Turn: Rook h8 - g8

9. Pawn e2 - e3
9. Black's Turn: Queen d8 - f6

10. Rook a1 - b1 
10. Black's Turn: Rook a8 - b8 (Gate in Chancellor to a8)

11. Queen d1 - d2 = Queen (Gate in Chancellor to d1)
11. Black's Turn: Chancellor a8 - b6

12. Knight e5 x c6
12. Black's Turn: Pawn d7 x c6

13. Bishop f1 - d3 
13. Black's Turn: Bishop c8 - g4 

14. Pawn f2 - f3
14. Black's Turn: Bishop g4 - f5

15. Bishop g3 x d6
15. Black's Turn: Archbishop f8 x d6

16. Bishop d3 x f5
16. Black's Turn: Queen f6 x f5

17. Archbishop h1 - g3
17. Black's Turn: Archbishop d6 x g3

18. Pawn h2 x g3
18. Black's Turn: Chancellor b6 - c4

19. Chancellor d1 - c3
19. Black's Turn: Pawn b7 - b5

20. Pawn g3 - g4
20. Black's Turn: Queen f5 - e6

21. Queen d2 - d3
21. Black's Turn: Chancellor c4 x c3

22. Pawn b2 x c3
22. Black's Turn: Queen e6 - h6

23. Pawn a2 - a4
23. Black's Turn: Pawn a7 - a6

24. Pawn e3 - e4
24. Black's Turn: Pawn d5 x e4

25. Queen d3 x e4
25. Black's Turn: King e8 - f8 

26. Pawn a4 x b5
26. Black's Turn: Pawn a6 x b5

27. King e1 - f1 
27. Black's Turn: Rook b8 - e8

28. Queen e4 - f5
28. Black's Turn: Rook g8 - g6

29. Pawn c3 - c4
29. Black's Turn: Rook g6 - d6

30. King f1 - f2
30. Black's Turn: Pawn b5 x c4

31. Rook g1 - h1
31. Black's Turn: Queen h6 - g7

32. Pawn c2 - c3
32. Black's Turn: King f8 - g8

33. Queen f5 - c5
33. Black's Turn: Queen g7 - g6

34. Rook b1 - b2
34. Black's Turn: Queen g6 - d3

35. Queen c5 x g5
35. Black's Turn: Rook d6 - g6

36. Queen g5 - h4
36. Black's Turn: Pawn h7 - h6

37. Rook h1 - e1
37. Black's Turn: Rook e8 x e1

38. Rook b2 - b8
38. Black's Turn: King g8 - h7

39. King f2 x e1
39. Black's Turn: Queen d3 - e3

40. King e1 - f1
40. Black's Turn: Rook g6 - e6

41. Rook b8 - b1
41. Black's Turn: Queen e3 - d3

42. King f1 - g1
42. Black's Turn: Queen d3 x b1

43. King g1 - h2
43. Black's Turn: Queen b1 - a1

44. Queen h4 - h5
44. Black's Turn: King h7 - g8

45. Queen h5 - h4
45. Black's Turn: Queen a1 x c3

46. Queen h4 - d8
46. Black's Turn: King g8 - g7

47. Queen d8 - b8
47. Black's Turn: Queen c3 x d4

48. Queen b8 x c7
48. Black's Turn: Pawn c4 - c3

49. Pawn f3 - f4
49. Black's Turn: Pawn c3 - c2

50. Pawn f4 - f5
50. Black's Turn: Queen d4 - g1

51. King h2 x g1
51. Black's Turn: Pawn c2 - c1 = Chancellor (Promotion)

52. King g1 - h2
52. Black's Turn: Chancellor c1 - f1

53. King h2 - h3
53. Black's Turn: Rook e6 - e3

54. Pawn g2 - g3
54. Black's Turn: Chancellor f1 - f2

55. King h3 - h4
55. Black's Turn: Chancellor f2 - h1 (BLACK CHECKMATE AND WIN)

💡📝Rich Hutnik wrote on Fri, Mar 28, 2008 03:44 AM UTC:Good ★★★★
My experiences running IAGO Chess (near B-Class, without the recycling pawn promotion) a bunch of times on Zillions, to give a general feel how play lines up:
1. The non-static opening makes the game feel like it starts out in mid-game providing players a lot of different ways the game can go.  It is real hard to say that there is opening lines.  The way IAGO Chess works, with both the gatings and drops, is you can have a game where one of the Capablanca pieces (Chancellor, Archbishop) can remain off board until even mid to late game.  Yes, it FEELS like regular chess when you start, but then the game can take a bunch of unexpected turns, which makes it good, in my opinion.
3. Yes, the board is a bit more congested, but you still can engage in positional play.  Some games have a much more open board, others tighter.  There is still a lot of tactical play.  Range of pieces drop a bit perhaps, but then this congestion balances the new power in the game. What I will say is that it is more like the midgame lasts longers because more pieces are on the board.  Because the power pieces gate into the back row, the back row will be a bit more full.  The power pieces don't come out until they are justified to do so.
3. I have seen times where the game is slow plotting, and then everything breaks loose as the pawn structures begin to get blown away.  The end game will often end up with very out of balance positions and one or more rook level or higher pieces floating around.  More of the pieces also mean your pawn structure will tend to be protected more, creating stronger lines.  I will say a byproduct is the end game usually has more pawns in it, with holes in the line.
4. My biased verdict on it is that I believe this works as a solid chess variant, and robust enough for people to make needed tweaks.  Of course, it  is my game, but it has held up.

I would suggest people get ahold of the Zillions adaptation once it is out, and try it themselves, and see what they think.  Even if you don't play the AI, do watch some games.  It should hopefully be out in a week or two.  All goes well that is.  If it goes real well, B, C and a version of M-Class (two variants of M-Class that is), should be available.  In this the Empress/Amazon will be added into the mix.

💡📝Rich Hutnik wrote on Fri, Mar 28, 2008 03:51 AM UTC:
By the way, for those who want to fiddle around with Capablanca pieces on an 8x8 board at this moment, feel free to check out this Zillions adaptation of different ideas throughout the years (IAGO Standard Fantasy Chess, aka Capablanca 64):

http://www.zillionsofgames.com/cgi-bin/zilligames/submissions.cgi/76178?do=show;id=1492

Seirawan ChessA game information page
. invented by GM Yasser Seirawan, a conservative drop chess (zrf available).[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Fri, Mar 28, 2008 10:31 PM UTC:
I have to say that most recent correspondence with the Seirawan Chess people has resulted in a permanent tabling of IAGO having anything to do with the Seirawan Chess, until things are said to be different.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Sat, Mar 29, 2008 07:18 PM UTC:
What they have done with checkers professionally is use a 3-Move randomized
opening.  They are also experimenting with randomly removing one of the
checkers at the start also, in addition to the 3-Move randomized opening. 
So, in a nutshell, they are going the Chess960 route with checkers to keep
it mixed up.  I believe another approach possible with checkers is gating
in different checkers from different version of checkers (aka,
IAGO/Seirawan Chess).  You could have a reserve of say Turkish or Polish
checkers, and then drop into a standard checker game.  Players decide when
to enter them.  By properly valuing the pieces, one could use the system as
a form of handicapping, but you also can do a random balanced shuffling of
which additional pieces enter the game.

This methodology will lead to the development of very sound principles
that can be taught, but not specific lines of play.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Sun, Mar 30, 2008 04:04 AM UTC:
My hope is the Chess Variant community can coordinate their efforts to be
able to pick stuff out that works, but also operate in a framework where
the chaos is still essential.  I would like to also see a World Champion
at chess variants, so it would generate needed publicity. I know this
desire has been labeled as 'unwanted, unneeded and impertnent' by some,
but I would disagree.  As of now Chess Variants are seen as nothing but
gimmicks that people play on the side as distractions, not something that
is also serious an essential to the growth of chess, and the family of
chess games.

IAGO Chess System. http://abstractgamers.org/wiki/iago-chess. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Rich Hutnik wrote on Sun, Mar 30, 2008 11:39 PM UTC:
This is a sample game run by Zillions against itself at C-Class IAGO Chess.   C-Class allows players to place Chancellor, Archbishop or Queen in the Queen space before game begins.  This starts off C-Class with 9 starting configurations before the players begin the game.  In this, it is Chancellor against Chancellor.  One configuration I have seen pop up off and on is White Chancellor vs Black Archbishop start.  My take is the Archbishop provides a strong defensive configuration.  I have found running it a bunch of times that within 2-3 turns, the opening book explodes in a wide range of possibilities.

The game (jump to the end to see whether white or black wins):

Turn 1, Initial Placement
1. (Place Reserve Chancellor onto d1)
1. (Place Reserve Black Chancellor onto d8)

Turn 2 and on, movement.
2. Knight b1 - c3 = Knight
2. Black Pawn d7 - d6

3. Pawn e2 - e4
3. Black Knight g8 - f6 

4. Knight g1 - f3 = Knight
4. Black Knight b8 - d7 (Gate in Reserve Black Queen onto b8)

5. Pawn d2 - d4
5. Black Knight d7 - b6

6. Bishop f1 - d3 
6. Black Bishop c8 - g4

7. O-O
7. Black Pawn e7 - e5

8. Bishop c1 - e3
8. Black Pawn c7 - c6

9. Bishop d3 - e2
9. Black Bishop f8 - e7

10. King g1 - h1
10. Black Bishop g4 x f3

11. Pawn g2 x f3
11. Black Queen b8 - c8

12. Pawn a2 - a4
12. Black Queen c8 - h3

13. Rook f1 - g1
13. Black Pawn e5 x d4

14. Bishop e3 x d4
14. Black Rook h8 - g8

15. Rook g1 - g3
15. Black Queen h3 - e6

16. Pawn a4 - a5
16. Black Knight b6 - d7

17. Bishop d4 - e3
17. Black Knight f6 - h5

18. Rook g3 - g1
18. Black Queen e6 - f6

19. Pawn a5 - a6
19. Black Pawn b7 - b5

20. Rook g1 - g5
20. Black Pawn g7 - g6

21. Pawn h2 - h4
21. Black Knight d7 - e5

22. Chancellor d1 - g1
22. Black Knight h5 - f4

23. Bishop e3 x f4
23. Black Queen f6 x f4

24. Chancellor g1 - h3
24. Black Chancellor d8 - e6 

25. Rook a1 - g1 = Rook
25. Black Bishop e7 x g5

26. Pawn h4 x g5
26. Black Pawn f7 - f6

27. Pawn g5 x f6
27. Black Chancellor e6 x f6

28. Rook g1 - g3
28. Black Queen f4 - c1

29. Bishop e2 - d1
29. Black Chancellor f6 - f7

30. Chancellor h3 - g1
30. Black Queen c1 x b2

31. Knight c3 - e2
31. Black Rook a8 - b8

32. Chancellor g1 - e1
32. Black Queen b2 - a1

33. Pawn f3 - f4
33. Black Knight e5 - c4

34. Rook g3 - d3
34. Black Knight c4 - b2

35. Rook d3 - d2
35. Black Pawn b5 - b4

36. King h1 - h2
36. Black Chancellor f7 - h6

37. King h2 - g2
37. Black Chancellor h6 - g4

38. King g2 - f1
38. Black Queen a1 x a6

39. Chancellor e1 - f3
39. Black Knight b2 x d1

40. Rook d2 x d1
40. Black Rook g8 - f8

41. (Drop Reserve Queen onto a1)
41. Black Queen a6 x a1

42. Rook d1 x a1
42. Black Rook b8 - b7

43. Chancellor f3 - d4
43. Black Chancellor g4 - h2

44. King f1 - g1
44. Black Chancellor h2 - h3

45. King g1 - g2
45. Black Chancellor h3 - h4

46. King g2 - g1
46. bKing e8 - d7

47. Rook a1 - a6
47. Black Chancellor h4 - g4

48. King g1 - f1
48. Black Rook f8 - c8

49. Chancellor d4 - d3
49. Black Rook c8 - c7

50. Pawn e4 - e5
50. Black Pawn d6 - d5

51. Knight e2 - d4
51. bKing d7 - e8

52. Rook a6 x c6
52. Black Pawn a7 - a5

53. Chancellor d3 - c5
53. Black Rook c7 x c6

54. Chancellor c5 x c6
54. Black Rook b7 - e7

55. Chancellor c6 - c8
55. Black King e8 - f7

56. Pawn e5 - e6
56. Black King f7 - g7

57. Chancellor c8 x e7
57. Black King g7 - h8

58. Knight d4 - c6
58. Black Chancellor g4 - f6

59. (Drop Reserve Archbishop onto a1)
59. Black Pawn d5 - d4

60. Archbishop a1 x d4
60. (Drop Black Archbishop onto g8)

61. Chancellor e7 - f7
61. Black Archbishop g8 x f7

62. Archbishop d4 x f6 (White Checkmate win)

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Rich Hutnik wrote on Mon, Mar 31, 2008 06:23 PM UTC:
Anyone up for promoting this to be part of the IAGO World Tour?  I could
get it on the 2008 IAGO World Tour calendar: www.IAGOWorldTour.com, and
please have some indication it is part of the Tour on a page for the
PotLuck event.  We can name it after a sponsor or the Chess Variants site
itself, to get it a bit of publicity.

Can we be assured that there will be at least two people entered into it,
excluding the organizer or whomever is running it  Also, will this wrap up before November?  If so, I would be interested in having it.  It may go full year long though.

Beyond Chess (tm). Commercial variant with dynamic board. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Mon, Mar 31, 2008 06:34 PM UTC:
I look forward to trying it again sometime. I had a good time also with it. I believe the game can also act as a Mutator of a sort for a lot of square space chess variants. IAGO Chess would also map to it well, for example.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Rich Hutnik wrote on Tue, Apr 1, 2008 12:49 AM UTC:
Ok, you can finalize the details, and get this nailed down.  Then decide
whether or not it will be on.  We can actually add it to the IAGO World
Tour after it starts, it will just be late getting on.  If it feels like
it is done before November, that is good.  Having it go into 2009 would be
an issue though :-).

Anyhow, I will let you finish up the details.  All that is needed is that
the event produces a winner, then I would need to know the number of
players total (don't need report that anywhere else except in the Tour
grand total), and also who won (their name) and their City and Country
(possibly also State if in USA).  Having a nickname is also cool, and can
be added.  Like saying 'Donut Donut' is the winner, but need the name
:-).  I would say nicknames are even encouraged for marketing purposes.  A
user name can serve as a nickname here.

IAGO Chess System. http://abstractgamers.org/wiki/iago-chess. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Rich Hutnik wrote on Tue, Apr 1, 2008 06:08 AM UTC:
Note that I changed the documentation to differentiate the specific game rules in the IAGO Chess System from the IAGO Chess System itself as a framework to manage change and the varieties of chess.

💡📝Rich Hutnik wrote on Wed, Apr 2, 2008 05:24 AM UTC:
As of this point, the name of the pieces have been changed. The Archbishop is now a Cardinal and the Chancellor is a Marshall. The Empress piece is called an Amazon, but may get chanced back to Empress. The use of Cardinal and Marshall allows flexibility in the naming of the Amazon/Empress piece, as per the community collectively agreeing to it.

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