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3D Shogi

. Three dimensional version of Japanese Chess.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Charles Gilman wrote on Sat, Apr 12, 2003 07:05 AM UTC:Poor ★

The way in which the Generals have been extended seems haphazard. Surely the Silver should be able to make any diagonal move and the Gold only the four forward ones. This would be consistent with the 2d rule that Gold is orthogonal plus forward diagonal and Silver ther reverse. As the simple extension into 3d increases Silver moves by 8 to 13 but Gold only by 4 to 10 I can quite see a case for adding the four forward triagonals to the Gold as well, but the simple extension seems quite adequate for the Silver.

L. Lynn Smith wrote on Fri, May 2, 2003 12:42 PM UTC:

I posted this implementation to the Shogi Variants Group at Yahoo! and received not one single negative response. The 3D interpretations of the Gold and Silver Generals are logical, and actually play very nicely. A pure extrapolation would result in the Silver General being more powerful than the Gold. Example: The Siver steps only orthogonally forward and any diagonal. This would result in 13 possible 3D moves. The General steps only orthogonal and forward diagonal. This would result in 10 possible 3D moves. This does not include the triagonal steps which would be 8 for the Silver and 4 for the Gold, further exaggerating the power difference. It was necessary that the Silver be somewhat weaker than the General since it was to promote to it. So, I gave the Gold General all the above moves plus the 4 side diagonals. This allowed the Gold to create a 2x3 area above and below, aiding in cornering that slippery 3D King during the end-game. And so, I gave the Silver only the ability to change level with the triagonal step. Thus giving the player a good piece but one that would need to be promoted.

Charles Gilman wrote on Sat, Jun 21, 2003 06:50 AM UTC:

What is great about Shogi Generals is that they are straightforward(!)
enhancements of the Wazir and Ferz, and the anomaly of these in 3d is a
direct result of the Ferz gaining many more moves than the Wazir in 3d. I
never suggested adding all triagonal directions to the Silver General and
only forward ones to the Gold one, although doing it the OTHER way round
would cancel out the anomaly. The orthogonal-triagonal and
diagonal-triagonal combinations yield two similar pieces each while
combining all three yields six - three with one forward-only move and
three with two. Are there really no two (or more - why stop at two in
three dimensions?) of these twelve that would be better than your
apparently arbitrary pieces?
	Regarding promotion note that promotion in standard Shogi is optional and
sometimes undesirable, and that as Rook and Bishop are promoted to
non-array pieces it would not be unreasonable to extend this. How about
both Generals starting with no triagonal move and gaining each other's
moves plus the forward triagonals? You could even have a promotable King
that starts with no triagonal move but gains eight on promotion!

L. Lynn Smith wrote on Tue, Jul 15, 2003 09:32 AM UTC:

I have completely explained the logic which was used to derive each of the
3D Generals.  So to continue to accuse this decision as 'arbitary' is
merely vindictive.

If this type of commentary continues, I request that the moderator strike
all further postings from this source.

Glenn Overby II wrote on Tue, Jul 15, 2003 12:42 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

As one of the several moderators indirectly addressed above, I simply note
that there is a difference between harsh commentary and abusive behavior. 
The former can give life to the forums...the latter is routinely purged
when it continues, lest it do the opposite.

The game, on the other hand, is a most interesting piece of work, even
though I find most 3D chesses to be of dubious playability.

Charles Gilman wrote on Wed, Dec 8, 2004 08:07 AM UTC:

I certainly never intended to offend, only to express an opinion and
suggest other possibilities. The goal of extending as great a game as
Shogi to 3d is certainly worthwhile, but understandably hard to achieve.
Since my last comment here I have had a page posted
(http://www.chessvariants.org/hexagonal.dir/honeycomb.html) that considers
a different kind of 3d cell: a hexagonal prism resting on an edge with the
hexagonal faces facing the players. It may be worth trying a Shogi variant
on a board of such cells because of its lack of a standard diagonal within
ranks. This still gives 13 Silver directions (1 forward orthogonal, 6
forward diagonal, 6 backward diagonal), but increases the Gold ones to 14
(1 forward orthogonal, 6 forward diagonal, 6 same-rank orthogonal, 1
backward orthogonal). Also of interest could be a variant on an enlarged
Tetrahedral Chess
(http://www.chessvariants.org/large.dir/contest84/tetrahedralchess.html)
board, which as the dual of the cubic one has 13 Gold and 10 Silver
directions.

💡📝Larry Smith wrote on Wed, Dec 8, 2004 01:13 PM UTC:

Charles,

You have made your dislike for this variant quite apparent in your
previous postings.  To continue making disparaging postings is not very
nice.

Your primary complaint has been the dynamics of the Silver and Gold
Generals.  This aspect was explained to you but you do not wish to
accept.

May I suggest that if you want to continue advocating a different form of
3D Shogi that you do so on another page.

One question: Have you actually attempted to play this game, or has your
observations been based solely on a biased approach?