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Comments by JorgKnappen
In fact, I don't know immediately how to save this game. The problems are obvious: A blocked pawn threatened by a knight will bring the game to an early end, and white has the initiative which brings free moves for white while black is forced to answer all the threats by the white knight. The key is the forking power of the knight. So there is much room for experimentation and playtesting. Ideas include: * Make pawns insensitive to the knight * Allow the capture of the knight if there are no forced moves left after the knight is removed * Allow suicide of a stopped pawn * Use multiple moves * Tune down the knight to a Mao, a Moa, or a heavenly horse (vN) Each idea and combinations of them need intensive playtesting, many of them probably must be discarded as the original sketch. Is it allowed to move to a square threatened by a knight (of course you have to move away in one of the following moves, but maybe you can just oscillate between two threatened squares in order to avoid to be forced to move a blocked pawn?) At last, a more precise description of the interaction between 'check' and forced moves is required. Does a piece give check and mate when it cannot move because other pieces have forced moves? What happens if your king is in check but other pieces have forced moves (you loose, you may move the king or remove the check in another way)? Again, the rules need playtesting to see whether they result in an interesting game or not.
A great idea and a great story together with the traces of playtesting. This makes an excellent new chessvariant. Of course, a cooperative game can be regarded as a puzzle for one player only (fighting againts the dice), but my experience (from playing Rengo) shows that reading the partner's ideas adds another twist to a game.
A very interesting note worth reading again from time to time. What makes me wonder here are the remarks about old shatranj and that K+4F (same colour) should win against K+R. I tried this by hand and found no way of confirming this claim. 5 Ferzes of the same colour are a different thing: A chain of Ferzes along the long diagonal can confine the rook in one diagonal half of the board (with the help of the King and noting that it is forbidden to give permanent check in Shatranj). Then, the net of Ferzes can be tightened until the rook is caught in a net and can be taken by the King. There is still considerable counterplay by an active defending King, and exact play is needed. I think, the mentioned scenarioes are worth a computer analysis. --Jörg Knappen
An excellent to this game! Maybe the author has not read the comment below, otherwise he would have been frightened by the task he has underdone. On the other hand: Can a Spartan be frightened? http://www.chessvariants.org/piececlopedia.dir/chess-different-pawns.html --JKn
Joe Joyce wrote in this thread: > Jeremy Good expressed the wish for totally different armies, including > pawns, in our conversations on shatranj-style armies, where he wanted > for a long time to dump the knight from the shatranj CwDA. And someone > has tried Chess with Different Pawns, but I cannot remember where. In fact, there is an old experimental army for Chess with different armies, namely Ralph Betza's Jovian army, see http://www.chessvariants.org/d.betza/chessvar/cvda/wow-jup.html This army may be an interesting opponent to the Spartans.
Maybe it is not wrong that the new armies in CwDA are a small tick stronger than the FIDE army, because
A Pawn is as Strong as the Hand that Holds It
A chessplayers hand is already (more or less) strong at holding the FIDE pieces, but very weak with new pieces introduced in CwDA. Therefore the effective strength of the new armies is reduced by the fact that they are so unusual. Of course, this does not count for a computer that uses mostly brute calculating force.
A Pawn is as Strong as the Hand that Holds It
A chessplayers hand is already (more or less) strong at holding the FIDE pieces, but very weak with new pieces introduced in CwDA. Therefore the effective strength of the new armies is reduced by the fact that they are so unusual. Of course, this does not count for a computer that uses mostly brute calculating force.
References
Unfortunately, no one seems to know the circular chess variant I have sketched in the previous message of this thread. The board was similar to this one: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSknightsofthero and the rules for going through the center were similar like in this variant http://www.chessvariants.org/shape.dir/globe.html
First, look at the recognised chess variants here: http://www.chessvariants.org/rindex.html Then, all national chess variants with a player community and some tradition; i.e., Makruk, Sittuyin, Shatar (Mongolian Chess). You may also look at contest-winning chess variants and contest finalists, see here: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/mainquery.php?type=Contest&orderby=LinkText&displayauthor=1&displayinventor=1&usethisheading=Contests
Unfortunately, Ibis is a well established and published name for the (1,5)-leaper, see e.g., here: http://www.dieschwalbe.de/lexikon.htm
From the same source: Interstingly, german and english names diverge for the (2,4)-leaper. While by Jeliss, the name lancer is well established, there is the german name 'Hase' (meaning hare).
To Charles Gilman:
In fact, my comment from 2002 reflects my knowledge I had at that time. There was a strange gap with the Flamingo alreay being named, but the (1,5)-leaper was left without a name.
Die Schwalbe is one of the leading problemist's journals (hey, they have journals allowing them to standardise on names!), therefore I consider their usage as well established. The Schwalbe reference gives no date when the name Ibis was assigned to (1,5) leaper, but here you can find a problem from 1999 using the Ibis:
www.softdecc.com/pdb/search.pdb?expression=CREATIONDATE%3E=20101230
(a quick google search with 'ibis chess problem' turned up this page as first hit).
To Christine: My first name is Jörg iwth an O-umlaut as second letter.
We tacitly assume that strength can be measured by one number and that the numbers can be compared using a transitive relation like 'greater than'. However, this needs not to be true, see here for a simple game with dice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontransitive_dice So here is a new chess variant challenge: Chess with nontransitive armies Design a chess variant with different armies such that, whatever army your opponent chooses first, you can choose another army having an advantage over your opponent's army. (To avoid the first move problem assume 2 games where either army moves first once)
Charles, I will not ask you to assign the name Ibis to the Zemel (we can live with multiple names for the same piece), but IMO you should consider giving the (1,8)-leaper another name.
I don't think we should see problemists and chess mathematicians as a kind of enemy camp. And: As long as chess variant inventors are ignorant to prior art, why should anyone else care. A striking example is Seirawan/Harper chess: Allthough there are established and sometimes even well-known names for the Rook-Night compund and the Bishop-Knight compound, they came up with new names. Even worse, their new names are established for pieces with other moves. As I say: With their (peer reviewed!) journals problemists have a far better infrastructure than chess variantists can even dream of. We have this web site and wikipedia. Neither of the two media is peer-reviewed.
Fergus, you underestimate the strength of the fairy problemist's community very much. Fairy chess problem do not only occur in the mentioned journals (note that I posted recently a list of fairy pieces and fairy conditions hosted by Die Schwalbe); they are even included in FIDE albums (where you can earn points for becoming a chess problem grandmaster). And there are lots of active composers for fairy problems around, they are creative with new pieces (like the Zabel pawn), and they are younger than Dawson :-) If you are really interested in chess problems, the language of the journal is a minor issue: The diagrams speak for themselves and the conditions or special pieces use some standardised notation. The journals or problem books often have bilingual or trilingual glossaries.
Unfortunately,
the UTF conversion problems strikes me in several ways: I cannot edit any
longer my own comments, and in my name i get an ugly > (diamond with a
question mark) displayed.
This latter proble should be easily fixed by sending an appropriate header
in the html; it is one line that reads:
<meta http-equiv='Content-Type' content='text/html;
charset=UTF-8'>
This line should be close to the top of the page, after the tag.
I don't know if this fixes the former problem, too.
--J'org Knappen
((To the editors: You may delete this comment after reading it))
In my previous comment I wanted to exhibit some html tags verbatim. They were visible in the preview, but are now invisible (but still there, when you view the source of the page!)
I vote for the cat, alltho the other images are also good.
Great work! You should submit your package also to CTAN; http://www.ctan.org there are some more chess-related TeX and LaTeX packages (and as a bonus, a Go package), but they don't handle chess variants AFAIK. (Chinese Chess is there; Shogi is missing on CTAN).
In fact, a bishop limited to 3 steps can be found in Taikyoku Shogi (The monster version) under the name Rikishi (Wrestler). On the other hand, a piece named Rikishi or Wrestler with different moves occurs in Tai Shogi and Maka Dai Dai Shogi: Here it is a limited bishop who can move also one square horizontally. In Ko Shogi, the Rikishi or Wrestler is lion mover. So sticking to Bishop's Dog for the limited bishop is probably the best choice. This also gives me the opportunity to advertise Derzhanski's list again: http://www.chessvariants.org/piececlopedia.dir/whos-who-on-8x8.html The huge advantage of this list that you can actually find pieces when you know how they move; either by searching the move notation or by estimating their strength and scanning the appropriate strength region.
In fact, if there is any difference in the values between Grand Rook (RAF) and Chancellor/Marshal (RN), then I expect the Grand Rook to be stronger, because it cannot be approached by the opponent's King.
First, an excellent to the 2 new pieces, the knave and debtor. The two are nice findings and worth the consideration of other chess variant authors as well. It is not an excellent for the whole game, because I think board design, piece mix and rule setup don't work as well as they could. For most pieces, 10x10 is already a too large board making them slow. The standard chess bishop and queen aren't good counterparts to knave and debtor. The standard chess rules on stalemate also don't accomodate knaves and debtors well: How many of them do you need to force the checkmate of a lone king? Knave and debtor have a strong 'shatranjian' feel; probably a very good variant is taking standard shatranj and replacing the knights with knaves and the alfils with debtors. Note that the original shatranj has only 2 alfils (where 8 are needed to cover the whole board); in the same manner shatranj with knaves and debtors has only two of each species. In shatranj, stalemate and lone king are wins, which reduces the number of draws.
Thinking of german translations for the knavish pieces, I came up with the following: Spitzbube for the knave (this is a possible real translation. The initial Sp- relates to Springer like the initial kn- relates to knight.) and Dabbes for the debtor. Dabbes is a south-west german dialectal word meaning 'clumsy one, dabbler' and I choose it because it sounds like Dabbaba, so this is a translation of the sound and not the meaning.
The nice graphics make this very large game readable and maybe even playable (if you find enough time and a partner). On my wish list: Could you also show the graphics for the promoted pieces, e.g., as a board with two ranks with the original piece above the promoted one?
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