Check out Janggi (Korean Chess), our featured variant for December, 2024.


[ Help | Earliest Comments | Latest Comments ]
[ List All Subjects of Discussion | Create New Subject of Discussion ]
[ List Earliest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]

Comments/Ratings for a Single Item

Earlier ⇧Reverse Order⇩ Later
Enneagram 1 3 5[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Sun, Feb 16, 2003 11:09 PM UTC:
The three personality types in the Enneagram's competency triad are
distinguished by how they relate to rules, and this bears on how members
of these three types approach Chess variants. The three types in this
triad are One, Three, and Five. Type One likes to obey rules. Type Three
likes to master rules. And type Five likes to play with rules.

While Ones like to obey rules, they sometimes feel dissatisfied with the
rules, seeking to reform them or supplant them. Enneagram author Don Riso
calls type One the Reformer. When a One is interested in creating Chess
variants, it is usually out of a feeling of dissatisfiaction with Chess
and other variants. A One typically seeks to create the perfect variant,
and he may devote his efforts to perfecting one variant rather than to
creating several variants.

Unlike Ones, Threes aren't driven to create the perfect game. A Three
is more likely to be driven to be good at a game. I expect that several of
the most accomplished players are Threes. Threes generally don't have
any inner drive to create new variants, but if a Three perceives a market
for a new variant, he may create one, then invest his time and money into
promoting it and marketing it. Threes are driven mainly by a desire for
success, and for some Threes promoting a new Chess variant may be a means
to success.

Fives like to play and tinker with rules. When a Five is interested in
Chess variants, he generally likes to play with Chess like it's a box
of Legos or Tinker Toys, mixing and matching various rules, pieces, and
boards to try out various possibilities. While Fives may employ standards
in creating their games, they generally regard the perfect variant as a
myth. For them, creating variants is more like playing with a kaleidescope
than it is about seeking perfection. Although Fives may like to see their
games manufactured, they generally lack a marketing orientation, and they
are usually too busy working on their next variant to spend much time
promoting their last one. Fives tend to create several more variants than
other types do.

There are six other Enneagram types, but the other six are probably less
interested in creating Chess variants. This doesn't rule out the
possibility that some variants have been created by other types, but it
may be rare.

Michael Nelson wrote on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 02:44 AM UTC:
Intersting application of Enneagram theory.  How would you classify Ralph
Betza, a master Chess player and probably the most most prolific living CV
designer? Or Tony Quintanilla, who is a quite strong CV player and a
skillful, creative CV designer?

Ben Good wrote on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 07:28 PM UTC:
what is enneagram theory?  where'd this come from?

Doug Chatham wrote on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 07:41 PM UTC:
See some of the links at http://www.duniho.com/fergus/enneagram/ for more
information on the enneagram.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Feb 18, 2003 03:13 AM UTC:
Regarding what Ralph and Tony might be, I would look more at why they
create variants than at how well they play Chess. Although Threes are more
competitive than Fives, I think Fives have more natural aptitude at
Chess-like games. I think Chess appeals mainly to people in the
intellectual triad (567) and to people in the competency triad (135). Type
Five is the only type in both triads, which probably gives Fives more of
an interest and more of a natural aptitude at such games. Also, when I
spoke of best players, I meant people like Bobby Fischer, who played Chess
very competitively. I'm sure many Fives play Chess very well, and I
know that Fives can be competitive, since I am a Five and frequently enjoy
competition. Regarding competition, I think one difference between Threes
and Fives is that Threes put more of a premium on winning, while Fives
enjoy the challenge of competition without worrying as much about winning
or losing. 

Concerning why Threes and Fives create Chess variants, I have more
thoughts on the matter. Besides creating variants for viable markets,
Threes may create variants for the sake of competition. I suspect that the
competitions at this site prompt some Threes to create Chess variants.
While Fives, such as myself, also enjoy competing in these contests, I
think one sign of being a Five is that someone frequently creates variants
without entering them into contests.

Getting back to Ralph and Tony, I'm fairly certain that Ralph is a
Five. Tony might also be a Five, but I have less evidence to go on. Ralph
clearly loves to play with rules. He has created several variants without
any hope of marketing them or entering them in competitions. He seems to
create Chess variants for the fun of it rather than for any extrinsic
purpose. Also, his funny notation is the sort of thing that I expect only
a Five would create.

LCC wrote on Tue, Feb 18, 2003 02:55 PM UTC:
This is interesting. It explains my artistic, intuitive and usually wrong
approach to chess variants, eventually spurning functionality and
playability. I am, of course, a four :)

Michael Nelson wrote on Tue, Feb 18, 2003 03:14 PM UTC:
Fergus,

Just the kind of detail I was hoping for--your response was very clear and
quite well-reasoned.  Thank you.

Moisés Solé wrote on Tue, Feb 18, 2003 07:26 PM UTC:
I scored 15 as a Five, and then a three-way tie with Two, Seven and Eight
with 9 each, and Three and Six with 8 each. Aren't I complicated? ;)

gnohmon wrote on Thu, Feb 20, 2003 08:41 AM UTC:
'The three personality types in the Enneagram's competency triad'

This is an interesting concept. However, I'm having trouble
finding in this thread the url where this enneagram thingy is.

I suspect there's more to it than 1 3 5.

I sometimes think that surely by now all the good chess variant ideas have
been mined and then I amaze myself by discovering another half-dozen or so
that are really basic fundamental building blocks. Maybe I just take a 3
attitude towards being a 5.

As a chessplayer, remember I'm just an fm, not an im nor a gm. Although
sometimes when I'm logged on to fics I'm the top human player, in
reality, I'm just a fish.

I gave up trying to be Bobby after I played him. So, I just try to be me.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Fri, Feb 21, 2003 11:46 PM UTC:
As good a place to start as any is my own page on the Enneagram at

http://www.duniho.com/fergus/enneagram

It includes links to several of the main Enneagram websites.

gnohmon wrote on Sat, Feb 22, 2003 03:20 AM UTC:
I am reading this in another window as I write this. By the way, when on
the job at work professionlly I was clearly INTJ. Here are my guesses:

1. Siegbert Tarrasch, a seeker after Truth. Read his annotation to a2-a4
in game 14 of his match vs Schlechter.

2. John W. Collins. 

3. Bill Lombardy?

4. A. E. Santasiere

7. Emanuel Lasker??

8. Bobby??????

However, we Aries don't believe in astrology.

LCC wrote on Sat, Feb 22, 2003 07:04 PM UTC:
Aries? I take it your birthday is close?

George Duke wrote on Mon, Dec 7, 2009 07:17 PM UTC:
Here gnohmon, Ralph Betza wrote, ''I gave up trying to be Bobby after I
played him.'' It's hard to find wanted Betza comments because he never
uses membership identification, as Gilman either did not until January
2009. Gilman appears to have started commenting early 2003, and Betza's
last comments are at his Ideal & Practical Values III July 2003.

13 comments displayed

Earlier ⇧Reverse Order⇩ Later

Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.