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Comments by Alfred Pfeiffer
I still have a question: When multiple pieces are mated, and then the removing of the first of them results in the effect that the remaining piece(s) no longer will be mated, do you then stop the removing or do you continue to remove until you have removed all initially mated pieces?
Hi Joerg, I assume in German 'official' names for Ultima pieces does not exist. Each author tries to find the best adaption. The German version of Zillions used names that differ from my inventions. I wrote a small article for the magazin 'Computer-Schach und Spiele'. Please look to 'http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~apf/Gnaax/CV/Ultima/ultima2.html' for the content. Friendly greetings, Alfred Pfeiffer
'I'd like to set up a game where white chooses a piece to use and drops it on his first rank. This causes an identical blue piece to appear blue's first rank on the rotationally (or perhaps reflectionally) on symmetrical square...' I propose to define an additional direction (here called 'mirror') that links the squares from the first row to its symmetrical field. Example: (board (Board-Definitions) (links mirror (a1 h8)(b1 g8)(c1 f8)(d1 e8)(e1 d8)(f1 c8)(g1 b8)(h1 a8)) ) Then in the setup phase you should be able to determine 'easily' by use of this additional direction, where related pieces are to be placed. For different variants of symmetry use different lists for 'mirror'.
I work on a zrf with a variant for each Patch Level. In some cases my interpretation of the rules differs lightly with those in Larry's zrf. I hope I can it offer this week (perhaps tomorrow) to the community. Alfred Pfeiffer
I could contact the inventor Panos Louridas and resolve some of the details that remained untold in the article and my previous comment (19.01.2006). First I should mention again, that an essential paramater in this game is the _number of types_ of pieces that a player owns. If it is only 1 or less then for this player virtual play never occurs. This ruling principle will help (I hope) to understand the following clarifications. 1) We should complete the rules about the capturing of pieces (real or virtual) by the following: If the number of types of pieces (real and potential) of a player will reduced by the capture to 1 and he owns virtual stones yet then the virtual piece(s) of this player will be replaced instantly by the potential pieces they stand for, and this event is not the start of a recycling (because such players are excluded from playing with virtual pieces). 2) Promotions of Pawns: The owner of the pawn chooses (at usual) a piece to become for the pawn. This pieces goes to the resevoir and becomes a virtual piece on the board then and only then if the number of types of pieces in the reservoir will be greater than 1 (including the new piece by the promoting). If this condition is not fulfilled the promoted piece stays a real piece. Examples: a) Before the promoting of a pawn the player does not own any other piece. Then the promoted piece will remain real evidently. b) Before the promoting of a pawn the player owns only one type of other piece(s) (always real by the rules mentioned above). If he chooses for the promoting pawn the same type as he already owns then all of his pieces will stay real; if he chooses for the pawn a piece of another type then instantly all of his pieces will go to the his reservoir and will be substituted by virtual piecs on the board. Furthermore the player also will take part again in the future recycling cycles. c) Before the promoting of a pawn the player owns more than one types of pieces, but all of them except one are already in the real state. If now the player chooses the same type of piece like the one that is represented by his last virtual piece then the promoted piece stay real; if he chooses a type other than that of the virtual his promoted piece will become virtual and the choosen type of piece will be added to his reservoir. d) Before the promoting of a pawn the player owns more than one types of pieces and at least two of its pieces are in the virtual state and stand for different types. In this case the promoted pieces always becomes a virtual piece and the choosen promotion goes to the reservoir. Friendly Greetings, Alfred Pfeiffer
Hello Mats, why do you not use an other name for your new piece? 'Elk' (German 'Elch')is already the name for a known fairy chess piece (look at 'http://www.softdecc.com/pdb/pieces.pdb?langt=EN&langn=EN'). There is already a lot of confusion because of the existence of different names for same pieces, but the situation becomes extrem mistakably by using same names for different pieces. Alfred Pfeiffer P.S.: This remark is valid also for other new pieces you introduced, e.g. 'http://www.chessvariants.org/piececlopedia.dir/scorpion.html' describes an other 'Scorpion', and maybe also the name 'Mammoth' is already used by fairy chess composers (but I do not know their definition).
Mats, I have to rehabilitate you partially because I read now that in the anglophone countries the problem friends use the denotation Moose for that piece which was named as elk in the cited source (from Germany), look e.g. to 'http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gpjnow/VC.htm'. But here are fairy chess definitions for some others of your animals: 'Elephant': Queen+Nightrider, used also in some game variants, e.g. 'Wolf Chess' (http://www.chessvariants.org/large.dir/wolf.html) 'Mammoth': moves like a rook but only if it can capture (from A. M. Dickins: A guide to fairy chess.) Alfred Pfeiffer
Hi Mats, your definition of 'Elk Chess' generates an asymmetry in the possibilities for the initial position: White can develop immediately its elk on the king side with a knight move to the row in front of its pawn, Black cannot do so. At the queen side the situation is inverse. You could reach easily symmetry by a little change in the rules: - for white swap the colors when the elk has to move as knight/rook; - for the black elk let the definition as it is. (Also a converse definition would be possible, depending at which wing you prefer a quick development of this piece.) Shortly you could summarize this new rule as follow: The Elk moves at squares of its own color like a rook, at squares of the opposite color as a knight (or the converse regulation). Alfred Pfeiffer
Hello Mats, you wrote
Notwithstanding I propose you to introduce both types of the Elk
(of course this needs slightly different graphics to distinguish them):
I think the asymmetry in Elk Chess is probably good.Your arguments are plausible and the opinion is to accept.
It creates a strategical tension, and castling will tend to be on different wings.
Moreover, should it not be asymetric, then the Elks would tend to be exchanged immediately, e.g.,
1.Eg3 Eg6.
Notwithstanding I propose you to introduce both types of the Elk
(of course this needs slightly different graphics to distinguish them):
- the B/W-Elk: it moves on the black squares as rook, but on the white squares it jumps like a knight
(this is the actual used type); and - the W/B-Elk: it moves on the white squares as rook, and on the black squares it leaps like a knight
(I proposed this type for the white pieces).
With this two types you may build easily different setups (symmetric or not, first move as knight or not).
Did you consider to apply this new method (different move possibilities
depending on the color of the square)
to other combinations of pieces, e.g.
- Elk pawns: move (when not capturing) as pawn or as knight (forward only), capture always diagonal;
- a Rook/Nightrider piece (how to name it?)
Alfred Pfeiffer
Precision to an entry in the section 'Books': Wurman, David: 'Chinesisches Schach, Koreanisches Schach'. Verlag Harry Deutsch, Franfurt am Main, Thun; 1991, ISBN 3-8171-1166-5
In the book
David Wurman: 'Chinesisches Schach, Koreanisches Schach', 1991, Verlag Harry Deutsch, Frankfurt am Main, Thun, ISBN 3-8171-1166-5, (German)
the passing is allowed anytime.
Here is the text to this 'Sonderregel' (special rule):
David Wurman: 'Chinesisches Schach, Koreanisches Schach', 1991, Verlag Harry Deutsch, Frankfurt am Main, Thun, ISBN 3-8171-1166-5, (German)
the passing is allowed anytime.
Here is the text to this 'Sonderregel' (special rule):
Im koreanischen Schach gibt es keinen Zugzwang. Sollte es für einen Spieler taktisch ungünstig sein, irgendeinen Stein, insbesondere seinen König, zu bewegen, dreht er ihn einfach um. Dies gilt als Zug, denn alle Figuren sind ja beidseitig beschriftet.
Why should a side without pawns lose the game? In chess the game is lost usually by the loss of royal pieces (king). I assume the king could resist against his capturing in many cases, so a draw seems possible. Also you could try to win without pawns by stalemating the opponent's pieces.
You find a download for an Amazons.zrf by Jens Markmann at the end of his web page http://underworld.fortunecity.com/fifa/73/
Joao Pedro Neto invented a similar game in 2005. He named it 'Hopp Chess'. The description is on the 'Trabsact Sagme Diaries', entry of May 17, 2005: http://sagme.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2005-07-21T09%3A45%3A00%2B01%3A00&max-results=25
The initial setup of the black pieces is wrong. For the correct starting array swap the black Bishops with the Unicorns. Then you get the following arrangement at the Level D: +---+---+---+---+---+ | u | b | q | u | b | 5 Queen Dc5; Bishop Db5, De5; Unicorn Da5, Dd5; +---+---+---+---+---+ | p | p | p | p | p | 4 Pawn Da4, Db4, Dc4; Dd4; De4. +---+---+---+---+---+ | | | | | | 3 +---+---+---+---+---+ | | | | | | 2 +---+---+---+---+---+ | | | | | | 1 +---+---+---+---+---+ a b c d e Unfortunately also the Zillions file in 'raum.zip' copied this error. The error does not occur at the old page for this variant: 'http://www.chessvariants.com/old.dir/3d5.html'. See also the books: Anthony Dickins: A Guide to Fairy Chess, and D. B. Pritchard: The Encyclopedia of Chess Variants.
This piece occured already as fairy chess piece 'Templar' in a problem composition of Bernd Schwarzkopf, published in the German magazine 'Problemkiste', No.23, 12/1984 (see 'http://www.softdecc.com/pdb/search.pdb?expression=PROBID='P1112855'' and 'http://www.softdecc.com/pdb/piecedef.pdb?id=M0000209').
I tried your PawnX.zrf (computer vs. computer). Following happened: 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.e4 N:e4 3.h3 N:d2 4.K:d2 g5 5.N:g5 Bh6 "Stalemate!" Black wins. Is this what you expected?
Matteo, there are some curios effects with your PawnTrap.zrf. 1) King may move into check if there are possibilities to capture a pawn. Example: 1.d4 Nf6 2.e4 Nxe4 3.Kd2?! Nxf2 2) No defense against checks if there are possibilities to capture a pawn. Example: 1.d4 e6 2.b3 Be7 3.f3 g5 4.Nh3 Bb4# "Checkmate: Black wins!" I assume this is not intended by you but a weakness of your zrf.
Lion is a well known piece of fairy chess, and means an extended grasshopper. Piececlopedia: "http://www.chessvariants.org/piececlopedia.dir/lion2.html".
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