Comments by ChessShogi
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, May 4, 2024 12:53 AM UTC:I made one last change to Chu Seireigi and Dai Seireigi, renaming the Lion to Lion Hawk to avoid confusion with the Chu Shogi Lion, while also keeping the Bishop + Squirrel move from before, whose Jocly code is shown below.
graph: this.cbDropGraph(geometry, [[-2,0],[-2,-1],[-2,-2],[-1,-2],[0,-2],[1,-2],[2,-2],[2,-1],[2,0],[2,1],[2,2],[1,2],[0,2],[-1,2],[-2,2],[-2,1]],[[1,1],[1,-1],[-1,1],[-1,-1]]),
(Keeping the Lion Hawk's value at 11 is reasonable, as it is basically equal in strength to a Queen, and may sometimes even have a light advantage)
In case you are wondering what a "Lion Hawk" is, I imagine it as a Japanese version of a griffin.
For the new diffusemap, simply use the Tenjiku Shogi Lion Hawk diffusemap.
For the 2D sprite, the best choice in my opinion for this piece may be the sprite two spaces to the left of the "gem" image in this spritesheet, as it resembles a griffin head with cat-like ears, at least to me. (If for some crazy reason you plan on implementing Dai Seireigi in Jocly, I would save the "falcon" image used for the griffin in other Jocly presets for the Flying Falcon or Cloud Eagle).
If you can implement these changes on the biscandine site that would be great.
P.S. Thanks for playing that test game with me. It helped me finalize the Lion Hawk's move.
Honorable Horse. Moves forward as a Knight.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, May 4, 2024 02:18 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from Wed May 5 2010 01:25 PM:This doesn't explain the fact that in Heian Shogi and Sho Shogi, the Knight has the same movement as in today's Shogi. My pet theory on this and the Lance's forward-only slide is that the Bushido Code has something to do with it. The Bushido code, which says surrender is the worst dishonor, and by proxy shames cowardice, may have been inprinted on the game by making certain pieces forward-only.
Play Chess Variants with Jocly. Missing description[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, May 4, 2024 02:15 PM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from 12:55 PM:I've also been looking for ideas for a lion hawk icon distinct from the griffon icon.
If there were an acceptable candidate, it would probably still take quite some time to to finalize.
If you want something that is nice and easy to make a diagram of via the Musketeer Chess site's board painter, the site should have the first and third icons available for use. Personally I'd recommend the first one, as it is a winged lion. The one used for Chu Seireigi can also work.
Here's a new setup picture for your rules description (refresh browser cache if old one shows up):
I'm working on a new 3d picture as well. I'll post another comment with it when I am done.
P.S. You may need to update the laser cutter SVG, but I am not overly concerned about that. You did include two extra Rooks in it though.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, May 4, 2024 03:54 PM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from 02:42 PM:I updated the 3d image.
I'll update the svg occasionally, lightburn doesn't work at home (on linux).
I take it that's the program you use for making the SVG?
Also, while I was uploading the Jocly files to the CVP site, I took the opportunity to make the rule description for the Jocly Chu Seireigi preset more accurate. Your version has some discrepancies and doesn't describe everything, thought to be fair I was still finalizing everything then. I can provide you with the files you need if need be.
I did the same for the Seireigi and Hectochess rule descriptions to a far lesser extent, though I am not overly concerned about these two.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sun, May 5, 2024 02:52 PM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from Sat May 4 08:58 PM:I saw that you copied the updated rules descriptions from the CVP Jocly presets, which is good. I made some fixes to these to improve clarity and remove a few typos I found. I will admit in advance that I am kind of a stickler for consistency, but if you can make those changes that would be great.
For Hectochess and Seireigi you can simply copy the code from the CVP rules files. The only thing you might have to fix is the Lance graph path in the Seireigi file.
For Chu Seireigi the rules description on the biscandine site is much better, but there are still a few discrepancies, and a few pieces are listed twice for some reason. I'd recommend simply copying the source code from the CVP Rules description to fix the text, and copying over the pictures whose links I have attached below.
Corrected Rules HTML
Corrected Movement Diagrams
https://www.chessvariants.com/play/jocly/dist/browser/games/chessbase/res/rules/shogi/graphs/fox.png
Monster Mash. Armies consist of classic monsters and scary creatures. (13x13, Cells: 169) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]A. M. DeWitt wrote on Fri, May 10, 2024 04:45 PM UTC:Zombie Pawn: Moves (with capture) one space directly or diagonally forward, or moves without capture one space directly behind. Any piece that captures it immediately becomes a Zombie Pawn (but doesn't change color).
This piece currently moves like a Copper General in the ID. Did you mean fhKbmW?
Also does the contagious capture only apply when the capturer stops on the Zombie Pawn's square?
There may be other inconsistencies that I have yet to discover. Other than that and the fact that the Vulture's kinks need sorted out, this looks good.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Mon, May 13, 2024 01:57 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from Fri May 10 05:07 PM:I believe it does not. I only set it up; H.G. will know how that functions. Logically, it should apply to anything but rifle captures (and Ghosts and Reapers [I think you meant Vampire here] would be immune), but I'm not sure how to set that up.
Well, if you mean that the contagion applies to anything but rifle/locust captures, then the diagram has you covered already (this is logically equivalent to it applying only to capture that stop on the victim square). In the current ID setup, the pieces that have rifle/locust captures (Vampire, Ghost, and Hangman) only transform when they stop on the Zombie Pawn's square.
This can be made a little clearer in the Zombie Pawn's description, but that is really simple. Just add the underlined text at the spot it appears in.
Zombie Pawn: Moves (with capture) one space directly or diagonally forward, or moves without capture one space directly behind. Any piece that captures it and stops on its square immediately becomes a Zombie Pawn (but doesn't change color).
What further kinks are with the Vulture?
I guess the Vulture's move description isn't too problematic, except that the ID move does not match up with it. It should be mHnFXnNY.
Play Chess Variants with Jocly. Missing description[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]A. M. DeWitt wrote on Tue, May 14, 2024 04:30 PM UTC:While I was on the biscandine site, I noticed a few errors in your rule descriptions, as well as an error in the Tori Shogi Jocly implementation.
In the Tori Shogi Jocly implementation, Player A's Left Quail has its movement mirrored from what it should be.
I have attached the corrected images for the movement diagrams below. I also removed the extraneous black lines from the Mini-shogi setup image.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Fri, May 17, 2024 01:17 AM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from Thu May 16 02:31 PM:I saw that you copied over everything, which is good. However, an unfortunate side effect of this is that the Prancing Stag diagram in Chu Seireigi's rules description is that of the Shogi Flying Stag.
To fix this, you will need to copy the image below to the biscandine site without renaming it, and then update the HTML in the Chu Seireigi rules description (You can simply copy the HTML from the CVP file, which you can find here).
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Fri, May 17, 2024 02:50 PM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from 08:02 AM:Thanks. Your stag looks nice.
I think it would look fine either way, as long as the symbols used are consistent (As you have probably guessed at this point, I am a bit of a stickler for cosistency). This is more of a matter of personal taste.
The only thing I'll say is maybe giving the black stag image a black border rather than a white one will make it look a bit better. The white border may make it look out of place compared to the rest of the pieces, at least to me.
Chu Shogi. 
Historic Japanese favorite, featuring a multi-capturing Lion. (12x12, Cells: 144) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]A. M. DeWitt wrote on Thu, May 23, 2024 04:14 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★When I first saw this game, I didn't think much of it, since I was more focused on larger Shogi variants, especially Tenjiku Shogi. However, now I have a few games against Jocly under my belt, and wow, this game completely blew me away. It is an absolute joy to play, despite its size and complexity (which melts away after a couple games). However, it is not completely flawless.
Some rules, such as the King Baring rule (Uses Shatranj version, K+G vs. K is mentioned in historical sources) and repetition rules (borrowed from Xiangqi) that are currently played by are modern contaminations from other games and/or are warped versions of things mentioned in the historical documents, but I am willing to include these two rules, as they help with decisiveness without being redundant or overly complicated.
However, I am not willing to play by the "Okazaki" rule, and I would never recommend using it, which allows recapture of a Lion after another Lion has just been captured, if said Lion is unprotected. There is no evidence that it was a part of the historical game, and it kind of defeats the purpose of the rule against indirect Lion trading, so why did someone think it would be a good idea to have this? All it does is add confusion and increases the chance of a simplified game, detracting from the playerr experience.
It is also not clear whether a Lion taking a Pawn/Go Between and then a Lion is allowed if the enemy Lion is undefended after taking the Pawn. Both sides have evidence arguing for them (the hidden protector example for yes, a tsumeshogi in Dr. Eric Silverman's Chu Shogi Part II article, explained in the An interesting quirk in the Lion-trading rules section, for no). Personally, I prefer that is is allowed, since no recapture is possible after the move, and there is no specific mention of this situation in the historic rules.
However, despite these problems, Chu Shogi is still easily among the best games of its kind. If you like Chess variants, you should give it a try.
Addendum - An attempt at a drops-playable Chu Shogi variant
Chu Seireigi is an attempt to combine elements of Chu Shogi with the ruleset of modern Shogi. It also has the benefit of not needing any special rules to preserve its quality, fixing all the problems with the modern "innovations" for Chu Shogi that I mentioned above. Players are disincentivized from trading off the most powerful pieces in many cases because they would just go into the player's hands, making them even more dangerous. The repetition rule is simply that of Shogi (draw, except perpetual check loses), and the drops make King-baring extremely rare. However, this comes with the unfortunate downside of having to remove all the multi-move abilities from the game, as otherwise the balancing would be thrown off.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Thu, May 23, 2024 04:37 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from Fri Nov 24 2023 06:34 AM:Since there are some discrepancies between the current GC preset and the rules that most people have reached a consensus on (mainly having to do with the anti-Lion-trading rules), I will make a new preset that patches them up, and uses sets with larger graphics to make it more user-friendly (specifically, my large Mnemonic pieces, Eric Silverman's 1-kanji pieces, and Bob Greenwade's pictogram pieces, using the XBoard/Interactive Diagram IDs). I also plan on making the preset correctly exclude moves that violate the Lion trading rules when highlighting legal moves.
This new preset will be based on the fairychess codebase and its Chu Seireigi version, and the multi-move code I have in place for the current preset at the time of writing.
Changes coming in new Chu preset (TLDR):
- New graphics sets used (my large Mnemonic piece set, Eric Silverman's 1-Kanji set, and Bob Greenwade Pictogram set)
- Uses XBoard/Interactive Diagram IDs
- Correct exclusion of moves that violate the anti-Lion-trading rules
- Possibly options for certain game situations
- First Lion step after final destination: true or false
- King Baring (uses Shatranj version of the rules for simplicity): true or false
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Thu, May 23, 2024 07:28 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 05:49 PM:Actually, I'll stick with the current graphics sets for the new Chu preset and add a Mnemonic set based on your Mnemonic pieces that matches the size of the Chu kanji images. I will still make a new preset for the game though.
Speaking of which, I corrected a few mistakes in the alfchushogi set file. Your welcome to the author of said file.
Edit: I've added the Mnemonic set, which is based on LiShogi's set.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, May 25, 2024 11:56 AM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from Thu May 23 05:49 PM:The fairychess-style code I was going for was giving me serious grief, so I decided to instead try to implement the Lion-trading rule display in this preset instead. No luck so far, though its plausible I am just being an idiot. For now, I will leave this preset as the default one, and leave it in its current state, which I know works properly. It might not be ideal, but it is good enough. Sometimes I get so wrapped up in whether I could, that I don't stop to think whether I should.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, May 25, 2024 01:58 PM UTC:Question. In the position below (from LiShogi), Black has just captured White's Lion. The recapture of Black's Lion via White's Soaring Eagle via a Lion move, which is allowed in LiShogi, clearly violates Chu's counter-strike rule, right?
If this is true, then both the Interactive Diagram and the Jocly implementation overlook this restriction when a Lion is captured on the first step of a multi-move.
The GC preset enforces the rule in such situations, but this is not reflected in its display of legal moves.
P.S. I have already notified LiShogi of this via Discord.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, May 25, 2024 02:58 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 02:11 PM:Indeed, it implements the counter-strike rule for single captures. However, the Soaring Eagle and Horned Falcon can move again after stepping in certain directions.
Upon further testing, it seems that the counter-strike rule is not being invoked when a Lion is captured and then the capturer moves away. For example, in this game in the I.D., after promoting the Dragons on h9 and e4, if Black's Soaring Eagle captures White's Lion and then moves to another square afterward, the counter-strike rule will not be invoked and the AI will capture Black's Lion with White's Phoenix.
1. h5 e8 2. Qh4 Qe9 3. Qe7 Qh6 4. Qxe8 Qxh5 5. Qxf9 Qxg4 6. Dd2 Di11 7. Ti2 Td11 8. Oh2 Oe11 9. Tf2 Tg11 10. e5 h8 11. Xe4 Xh9 12. Xg6 Xf7 13. Xxi8 Xxd5 14. Qf5 Qg8 15. Dxh8 Dxe5
The moves you need to make manually are:
16. Dh9+ De4+ 17. +Dxg10xh9
If you make the same moves in Jocly, the same thing will happen.
The same thing happens in LiShogi, since the same behavior is taking place. I have already notified them about what I have found. One of the developers apparently thinks non-lion refers to non-Lion moves though, rather than non-Lion pieces.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, May 25, 2024 04:17 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 04:11 PM:If you make the same moves in Jocly, the same thing will happen, just so you know.
One of the LiShogi developers responded to my bug notificaton, but apparently thinks non-lion refers to non-Lion moves though, rather than non-Lion pieces, which leaves me wondering what the general consensus is. I would assume it to be piece types, based on the explanation of the another square clause.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, May 25, 2024 05:23 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 04:11 PM:[Edit] In the I.D. the AI does this correctly. But the problem is caused by the way the latest user move is passed to the AI. This derives the move from the origin and destination highlights, so it completely misses any locust capture.
I did test the position I gave you by having the AI capture the Lions instead of the user, but this too seems to not properly invoke the counter-strike rule, though I suppose you still have to update the source file. I'm guessing the problem is that the way the AI gets the last move in general is through the origin and destination squares.
I can see the way you interpret "non-lion" in the counter-strike rule becoming a point of contention. The rule does not explicitly say "non-Lion piece" when it says "a non-Lion cannot capture a Lion...", which is the source of this confusion.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, May 25, 2024 06:32 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 05:40 PM:Now that you say that, it clears up all the previous confusion. I guess my autism got in the way.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sun, May 26, 2024 04:36 AM UTC:I have cleaned up the code for the Chu Shogi preset, and have made a separate preset for testing the Lion-trading rules for the legal moves display.
[Edit]: Good news! The GC Preset now successfully displays the counter-strike rule. Still working on the other Lion-trading rule though.
A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sun, May 26, 2024 03:53 PM UTC:It's official. The Lion-trading rules are now properly displayed in the GC preset.
[Edit] I've made modifications to the Chu Shogi GC set files for the Japanese and Latin Chu Shogi pieces so that the size of the highlights matched the size of the piece images, allowing for more user-friendly legal move displays.
Interactive diagrams. Diagrams that interactively show piece moves.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]A. M. DeWitt wrote on Wed, May 29, 2024 05:37 PM UTC in reply to Daniel Zacharias from 03:56 PM:captureMatrix isn't like morph. It should be defined it once per diagram, and each "row" and "column" represents a piece type, not a square, and this includes empty squares if I remember right. See the source (use Ctrl+U) this diagram of Tenjiku Shogi for an example.
Hibernian Chess. Members-Only Missing description (14x14, Cells: 196) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]Since this comment is for a page that has not been published yet, you must be signed in to read it.
Centurion Chess. Centurions replace the Kings. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]A. M. DeWitt wrote on Fri, May 31, 2024 12:55 AM UTC in reply to Florin Lupusoru from Mon May 20 04:56 PM:This looks good.
The Centurions are an interesting idea. The 1d shogis have tried this kind of idea before with a single forward-only King.
If it turns out there are too many Centurions, you can always reduce the number of Centurions to two. However, the winning King promotion likely takes care of that, at least if it is an immediate win.
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I'm actually starting to lean back towards the Bishop + Squirrel move for Chu Seireigi and Dai Seireigi, since in my test game of Chusei with you, if the Lion had the KNAD move you would be able to force mate in 3 with just the Lion, and I don't want one piece to steal all the show from the others.
Edit: Looking at the current position you can still force mate in 3, but you need to get more pieces involved.