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Comments by MichaelNelson
Tim, The Rhino can move one step in any direction and stop on that square (same as a non-royal king) as well as turning 45 degrees in the appropriate direction and moving a second square. The non-royal King move alone is worth 2 atoms. If the second move comonent if it were a leap would also be 2 atoms. To allow for lameness, mutiply by .7, so add 1.4 atoms for this component for a total of 3.4 atoms. The piece is substantially stronger than a Rook. You may be confused by some incarnations of the Rhino requiring the first step to be orthogonal -- such a piece is indeed worth only 1.7 atoms, less than a Knight.
I have an idea for Pocket Mutation Demotion Chessgi. It will use the same pieces and value classes as PM. The rules for using the pocket are expanded: When you capture an enemy pawn, it is removed from the game. If you capture any other enemy piece, it is demoted to the next lower value class, mutated to a friendly piece of your choice in that class, and put in your pocket. This is mandatory even if your pocket is not empty and will cause the removal of any piece in your pocket from the game. Notice how you can't put a strong piece in the pocket and wait around for a good drop--in effect you can only capture pawns as long a s that strong piece is there. Imagine having a Queen in your Pocket and the opponent checks with a Knight and the only counter is to capture the Knight. At the cost of a Knight, the enemy has changed your Queen into a pawn!
The correct value depends on what magic number (square emptiness probability) is chosen. I go with Ralph's uppen end estimate of .7 With his lower end estimate of 2/3 then the value of the SS Rhino would be 2 + 2 *(2/3) = 3 1/3 The Gnomon is a different matter: its lame H move must be multiplied by .49 or .44 as there are two interventing squres.
This is a misinterpretation of Rule 8 of PMC. Triple repetition is a draw, just as in FIDE Chess--per rule Zero, all FIDE rules apply except as contardicetd by the given rules. PMC has a differnt 50-move rule because the essence of the 50 move rule is irretractable change--and a pawn move in not unretractable in PMC. Triple repetition is the same as in FIDE, therefor it isn't stated explictily in the PMC rules. The game in question is indeed a draw if the player to move chooses to claim it.
I think the real issue is to alert the players to the fact that a drawn game has in fact been achieved so the game can be concluded and the final round started. It is evident that both players were suffering from the same misperception of the PMC draw rules. Carlos had earlier posted an inquiry to the PM page about a perpetual check draw. I answered him that the rule was the same as in FIDE--perpetual check is not a draw per se, but always leads to triple repetion or the fifty-move rule (virtaully always the former). It is self evident that Carlos intended to achieve a draw--Antoine has a won game absent the perpetual check--therefor he must have been unaware that he has done so.
A fine small Shogi variant. I would love to see the rules for the 11x11 variant.
Define two directions with links: (links cw (e5 e6) (e6 e7) (e7 e8) (e8 e9) (e9 e10) (e10 e11) (e11 f11) (f11 g11) (g11 h11) (h11 i11) (i11 j11) (j11 k11) (k11 k10) (k10 k9) (k9 k8) (k8 k7) (k7 k6) (k6 k5) (k5 j5) (j5 i5) (i5 h5) (h5 g5) (g5 f5) (f5 e5) ) (links ccw (e5 f5) (f5 g5) (g5 h5) (h5 i5) (i5 j5) (j5 k5) (k5 k6) (k6 k7) (k7 k8) (k8 k9) (k9 k10) (k10 k11) (k11 j11) (j11 i11) (i11 h11) (h11 g11) (g11 f11) (f11 e11) (e11 e10) (e10 e9) (e9 e8) (e8 e7) (e7 e6) (e6 e5) ) Use these directions in the serpent's move.
I haven't had a chance to learn how to make a preset. If anyone is willing to make one (presumably non-rules enforcing), I would be greatful. I would also be happy to play a game with anyone interested.
An excellent tournament--well run and well played. Congratulation to Antoine for his near perfecto: 10.5/11 is very impressive in any tournament. Congratulations to Roberto for a very solid second with a score that might well have won had Antoine been less dominating. I loved playing this tournament in spite of finishing last (of those who completed the tournament) and in spite of gaining only 1 point over the board. I did at least chalk up a fairly impressive win at my own Pocket Mutation Chess. I hope that the preparation for Mutivariant 2005 will be underway soon--definetly count me in.
The incentive to use the royal attribute is simple: you can't capture any enemy pieces until you do.
Charles is of course correct--one will never promote to Rook, Bishop, or King in this game, as their moves are subsets of the Queen's move. this can never be desirable when stalemate is not an issue. Underpromoting to a Knight can be correct as its move is distinct from the Queen's
Roberto, I am in fact doing the design and testing by writing a ZRF, so the implementation takes care of itself. The gameplay is interesting and the piece set works well. I will need some more endgame testing and may changes some of the rules (stalemate, last piece, etc). But in essense I have a game design I'm happy with.
I've been doing some extensive playtesting of my creation and find that it plays well--the win condition works very well. Some serious endgame testing with Zillions has lead me to change the last piece conditions. Now a the full win/loss/draw conditions are: 1. Having pieces worth 10 or more points on your tenth rank at the beginning of your turn wins. 2. Capturing your opponent's last piece wins. 3. Losing your own last piece via suicide capture loses. 4. Doing 2 & 3 on the same move (leavng an empty board) wins. 5. Stalemate, triple repetition, and the 50-move rule are draws.
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Greg, Excellent work in doing all the calculations. Your figures confirm my designer's intuition that the value classes (desinged based on Betza's atomic theory of piece values, with no detailed math) are well-defined and playable. The worst case scenario is a discrepancy of 1.47 mobility between Nightrider and SuperBishop in class 3. This is vitually identical to the smallest difference between two pieces of differnt classes: 1.48 betweenS SuperCardinal (class 5) and ChancellorRider (class 6). However, some hard to quantify but very real values tend to narrow the former gap and widen the latter: The Nightrider is particularly strong in the opening and as a drop piece--this brings it closer to the SuperBishop which is not particularly outstanding in either respect (though hardly poor). The ChancellorRider has a Rook move, so it has King Interdiction power (the ability to prevent a King from crossing a rank or file covered by a Rook move, thus confining it to a restricted area of the board). As the SuperCardinal does not have King Interdiction power, this gap widens.
I have submitted revisons which should appear shortly. After playtesting and crtique by Michael Howe and further testing of my own, I have made these changes: 1. The positon of the Kings and Knights in the opening setup is swapped. M. Howe observed that it was usual to move a Knight on the opening move to liberate a Rook, which in effect pinned the opponents Knight--to move it would allow RxR on the tenth rank and the recapture is a suicide capture. This has a considerabe cramping effect though it did not affect play balance as both sides could use the tactic. With Kings in this poistion the pin still occurs but is much less significant as the King can move on the file without exposing the Rook and it is much easier to untangle the position. 2. I have changed the last piece rules so that the suicide capture of the opponents last piece with your own last piece is a draw--which seems more logical. The situation itself is rare. 3. Pawns may take the double step anywhere on the board as many times as desired. 4. I have replaced en passant with M. Howe's excellent Pawn rule: a pawn may not move across a square attacked by an enemy Pawn. 5. A pawn on the tenth rank remains a Pawn, but on any subsequent turn may promote in place to King (winning unless the opponent can capture). Changes 3-5 have made Pawn play much more dynamic and exciting, while eliminating many dull draws when the armies are reduced below 10 points but winning by annihilation is not feasible.
Mason, I have not found Decima to be overly drawish, especially in the latest version I descibed in my previous comment. In my test games (Zillions of Games vs. itself at the most intelligent setting), the outcomes in order or frequency: 1. Win by getting two pieces to the tenth rank. 2. Win by getting a King to the tenth rank. 3. Win by annihilation of the enemy army (including forced suicide capture). 4. Draw. 5. Win by Pawn promotion. 6. Win by getting more than two pieces to the tenth rank. The Pawn promotion seldom wins outright by often leads to a win by another means by forcing a suicide capture by a key defensive piece. Some very small endings are decisive for example Pawn vs. Pawn is a win by annihilation or promotion in all cases except where the Pawns are in front of each other on the same file. King vs. X is only a draw if X is a Rook or if X is a King in certain positions. King vs. Queen, Marshall, or Seneschal is loss by annihilation. King vs. Palladin, Pope, Duke, Bishop, or Knight is a win by reahcing th etenth rank. King vs Pawn will depend on the positioon, but will only draw if the King catches the Pawn on the promotion square--all other King vs. Pawn endings are decisive.
Either the Symbolic or Chess Motif pieces are fine with me--because of my poor eyesight I find it difficult in the extreme to play Shogi with the Japaneses pieces, I confuse them too easily.
I have resubmitted my final revisions for the Decima webpage and the ZRF. I have been haivng email problems and I am uncertain if my previous submissions after the original have been received. Could one of the esteemed editors let me know if this morning's submissions have been received?
I am witholding a rating until I get a chance to playtest it, but unless there is some hidden flaw I expect to rate it 'excellent'. The game concept is very innovative and I particulaly like those quirky Pawns. Is anyone working on a ZRF for this game? If not, I will try it myself. If anyone is, you will need some code trickery--a straight forward 'capture both kings' type win condition will make Zillions very hesistant to use the Valkyrie swap move on a King--during move evaluation, Zillions erroneously considers this to be a loss of the King, though it treats the move correctly when actually determining if the win condition is achieved. Email me for details.
I will start development this weekend. I can use a coventional board and piece graphics while I'm perfecting the implementation and substitute the final graphics later. I might be able to derive the images I need from the picture on the Web page, which looks really good. By the way, Peter, I should have credited you with the indirect capture target technique which I learned from you. It simplifies many complex situtations as well as the king swap issue. It is, for example, essential to the implementation of the Decima 10-points condition.
Garry, I have a working ZRF implementing all the rules as you have given them on the web page. Please send me the graphics files and I will finish the implementation. The Valkyrie swap is evaluated correctly when involving non-royal pieces, only the swap with a King is problematic. The bug is in the evaluation of win/loss/draw conditions within the consideration of the move: removing a royal piece temporarily to replace it elsewhere is deemed a loss, whereas after the move is executed and Zillions checks the conditions, it is handled correctly. In other words, during a swap move, Zillions mistakenly thinks the temporary disappearance of the King while it is being swapped to another square is permanent. In any case, the indirect capture target technique solves the problem. One question: is it legal to use the Valkyrie swap to make a null move? That is if a Valkyrie on c6 swaps the other Valkyrie at c9 back to c6, then you have made a move but the position on the board hasn't changed. In most CV's the answer is 'No', so I have coded accordingly: a Valkyrie cannot swap positions with the other Valkyrie and a King using a Valkyrie move connot swap positions with the other King. If you intend to allow null moves it is trivially simple to change the code to allow them.
Here is the 'Excellent' I thought I would be giving this fine game. Having seen it in action while coding the ZRF, I am quite convinced of the game's quality. The piece set is quite interesting and works well together. The Pawns are unusual but easy to learn to use. The Pawns are quite strong: I'd guess about halfway between a Ferz and a Knight (slightly closer to Ferz). The Forest Ox is the big gun of the board on both offense and defense. The Valkyrie is not quite as strong as the Forest Ox, but is much more powerful than a Queen: the swap move allows if easier developement (can swap with a Pawn in the opening setup) and more ways of escaping trouble, while still having all of a Queen's move and capture power. Rook and Bishop are minor pieces, with the Rook the stronger but with less gap between them than in FIDE Chess, since a Valkyrie swap can get the Bishop to the opposite color. The idea of the King's movement depending on the friendly pieces adjacent to it works quite well here and I'd love to see it used in other variants. Overall, a highly playable and enjoyable game.
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