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Comments by MarkThompson
Thanks David and Greg! Looks much better now. This is a great new facility!
I think you could implement something in Zillions that would work like this game. My plan would be, program 3 players: the computer has to play first, then the user, then a 'neutral' player. The computer's moves would take place on an invisible 'side' board, then the human player would make a move (not having been able to see the computer's move: you'd have to close the panel that shows the move notations), and then the 'neutral' player would make his move, which would always be to transfer the computer's moves from the invisible board to the visible one. If the transfer caused conflicts the neutral player would have to do something complicated to resolve them. You could never have the computer move second, or zillions would use the information about the human player's move.
I don't think I've ever used the ratings on pages. When I see a game that sounds interesting to me I read it, otherwise I don't. Do other people search specifically for highly-rated games? If no one pays any more attention to ratings than I do, it doesn't seem worth getting upset over someone 'forging' a high rating for himself.
Yes -- to play a game like this well the computer would have to use what's called 'classical' game theory rather than, I suppose, 'combinatorial' game theory. In classical game theory, which is used for games of simultaneous movement, the possible choices for each player form the rows / columns of a matrix, and the entries of the matrix describe the value of the result to one of the players. The optimal strategy for each player is a vector giving the probability that the player should give to each possible choice. If the matrix is known then the calculation of the optimal strategies is straightforward. But the conventional ways of evaluating the value of a game position for standard chess would not apply here, so figuring out the entries to the matrix would be difficult. It might be a good research project for some grad student studying game theory, though.
By 'algorithmatization', do you mean finding an algorithm by which a player can be certain not to lose? That's a good question. I thought at first it was obvious that no such algorithm could be found, since Synchronous Chess is not a perfect-information game, but as I think about it a second time, I realize it's not so obvious. But I think it's unlikely there could be such an algorithm. Luck is a factor.
If the players are cooperating, why do you need two of them?
Except, I think, in an 'official' chess tournament, where I'm told that announcing check is considered rude by some.
What would be wrong with putting a length-limit on user ID's to prevent this problem from recurring? Perhaps characters like at and slash should be prohibited as well.
'I think in this instance and only in this instance should you add all the points of pieces captured in order to determine the winner.' John, you could make a case that the chess variant played that way would be better than Chess, and certainly you and your opponent have the right to play that way if you like. The only caution I would advise is that, since those are not the standard rules of Chess, you'd better make sure you and your opponent both agree to those rules before you start, or else someone might end up with hard feelings after the game is over. (This reminds me of the aftermath of the 2000 election ...)
Another question would be whether people with high IQs are smarter than other people. Chess and other mentally taxing games are said to ward off Alzheimer's, which is somewhat related to your topic. I would guess, though, that if there is anyone who doesn't enjoy playing chess, but plays it anyway in hope of becoming smarter, then it won't work for that person.
Hmm. Some of these rules will probably need to be spelled out more. For instance, it's illegal to make a move that results in insufficient mating material. Does that mean that when either player gets down to a set of pieces that can't be reduced further and still be able to force mate, his remaining pieces become uncapturable? But won't the conventional ideas of how much material is sufficient to force mating have to be revised, in light of this invulnerability rule? And the fact that no move is allowed that would result in stalemate might also affect the issue, I think. More fundamentally, is it allowed for one player to be reduced below the level where he could force mate, as long as the other one is not?
The 'drowning rule' in Congo is original and interesting, but it seems to me that it makes it awfully difficult to get an attack going. If you push a piece into the River, your opponent has the option of immediately making a counterattacking move that needs an immediate defensive response, which forces you to lose the piece in the River. It almost seems as though you're better off waiting for the other player to attack and let him be the one whose pieces drown. Does anyone know just how the good players avoid this problem? Someone once observed that one of the general problems in designing a good strategy game is figuring out how to force the players to be aggressive, since many games tend to favor passive play unless a mechanism is introduced to force conflict. This makes me suspect that Congo might be a better game if the drowning rule, which seems to discourage conflict, were revised somehow: perhaps, a piece (or at least a Pawn) should be allowed to stay in the River one turn without drowning? Any suggestions?
'most chess pieces are symmetrical along a vertical axis, and I simply haven't the slightest idea how to do it with the software that comes with Windows.' In MS Paint, make sure you uncheck the option 'Draw Opaque' under 'Image', and then draw the left- or right-half of your image. Leave the rest of the image white. Then select all, copy, and while the copy is selected, choose Image / Flip-Rotate / Horizontal. That will flip the 'copy' to its own mirror-image. Then you can adjust its position with the mouse to line up with the other half.
Strip off HP laserprinter headers? Sorry, no idea on that one--not even sure I understand the question. Maybe someone else knows.
'And as far as piece names go, no need to justify your choices. Piece names are the prerogative of the inventor ...' Not only that, but those of us who construct our own sets will ultimately just call the pieces by the names we like, and switch to 'official' names only for online discussions if needed. Just like players started calling the elephant a bishop. For instance I always call a B+N a Cardinal, regardless of anyone who wants me to call it an Archbishop. And if I ever get around to making a Navia Dratp set, I'm gonna make a LOT of changes ... Like that poem, 'The Moon': 'You say it's made of silver, I say it's made of cheese. For I am an American, And say what I d*** please.'
Regarding possible 'fixes' for the drowning rule (if anyone agrees with me that it needs fixing), what if we declared that the river contains 'islands' at b4 and f4, and any piece can remain on those squares indefinitely without drowning? The crocodile's move is unaffected. This might allow the river still to have an effect on play, but also allow players to launch attacks more easily. Would anyone like to try it?
I believe you're mistaken in saying the cannons can capture one another in the opening setup. They only go over one piece in making a capture, and they're separated by two pawns.
I also prefer the 'optical illusion' board. I prefer plain things over garish. And the idea of checkering it sounds very reasonable to me too.
I've always thought the best implementation of ratings would be an 'open-source' approach: make public the raw data that go into calculating the ratings, and allow many people to set up their own algorithms for processing the data into ratings. So users would have a 'Duniho rating' and a 'FIDE rating' and 'McGillicuddy rating' and so on. Then users could choose to pay attention to whichever rating they think is most significant. Over time, studies would become available as to which ratings most accurately predict the outcomes of games, and certain ratings would outcompete others: a free market of ideas.
'I also like the open-source approach (maybe make the raw data XML, plain-text, or both), but there should also be one built-in to this site as well, so if you don't have your own implementation you can view your own.' Sure, the site should have its own 'brand' of ratings. But I mean, it would be good to make ratings from many user-defined systems available here also. Just as the system allows users to design their own webpages (subject to editorial review) and their own game implementations, there could be a system whereby users could design their own ratings systems, and any or all these systems could be available here at CVP to anyone who wants to view them, study their predictive value, use them for tournament matchings, etc. Of course, it's much easier to suggest a system of multiple user-defined rating schemes (hey, we could call it MUDRATS) than to do the work of implementing it. But if enough people consider the idea and feel it has merit, eventually someone will set it up someplace and it will catch on.
As far as the aesthetics of the game are concerned, I'm completely with Michael Howe. The forms of the pieces are repulsive, the bizarre names for everything (including the game itself) pointlessly ugly. But I've played at least half a dozen games, and the game itself is very good. I can hardly wait for the copyright to run out, so I can create an isomorphic game with sensible, euphonic names and pleasant-looking pieces. WHY does anyone create ugliness when beauty is within easy reach? I suppose I could make my own version even now, but they deserve to make money on their invention from people like me as long as they're trying to, so eventually I'll probably buy their equipment. But not without gnashing my teeth.
'Is Lord Kiggoshi such a terrible name?' No, Kiggoshi does sound Japanese. But Chugyullas, Coydrocomp, Nebguard? Gyullas (to mean simply Money)? Dratp (to mean simply Promote)? As you say, we have different tastes. And the names don't spoil the game for me, because when I'm playing I don't think about them.
Energy crystals, money, what's the difference. It's stuff you earn by doing something and pay out to get privileges: by me that's money. And while I agree that dratping isn't exactly the same as promoting, the concept is close enough. A space elevator isn't exactly an elevator, but calling it that makes the idea clearer than coining a new word that's unrelated to anything in the language -- AND is either almost-unpronouncable or has a silent letter, what's with that? Silent letters are vestiges of pronunciations from earlier times, what's the point of including one in a new coinage? My aesthetic preferences are admittedly my own, and though I feel I have good reasons behind them, I don't expect everyone else to share them. These things depend on individual judgment, sentiment, and taste. As I've already said, it's a fine game.
This seems like an interesting, simple idea. Since Knights gain so much power as to be a problem, I wonder whether it would be good to play Diana Chess (6x6 board with no Knights) with this 'One Double-Move' rule.
Another possible variation to address the overstrong knight problem would be to use a standard board but replace the knights with other pieces, such as Horses (like knights but without the ability to jump over an orthogonally-adjacent piece), or Burmese Elephants (Shogi's Silver General). I like this idea, it seems like an ingredient that could enhance many different chesses. Maybe there should be a regular page for this game.
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