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@ Bob Greenwade[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Mon, Jan 22, 2024 05:03 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 12:31 PM:

this proposal to name the W-then-B a Manticore (which I never liked anyway) turned out to be a bust

Did it? I proposed two names for the piece – Chimera and Manticore – and Manticore is the one that people started using.

everyone using that piece seems to use a Rhino to represent it.

Aurelian Florea used a lion in Frog Chess with Manticore and Falcon and some other related games. Among images we already have, the lion would be the most appropriate, as the Manticore is often depicted in a more leonine way than the old image I posted. For example, the Emerson, Lake & Palmer album The Return of the Manticore depicts it with a mane and a somewhat more human face than a lion has.

Cyrus Arturas used an even more authentic Manticore image in ArchMage Chess. I'm including the move diagram here, because he didn't include an individual image of the piece.

In GrandBetza, John Davis used a Rhino image for a piece he called a Rhino, but he links it to the Rhino page, and the interactive diagram shows that it moves differently than the Manticore.

for which no one probably knows what it is anyway, without looking it up

It is kind of surprising that it turned out to be more popular than Chimera, which should be well-known from Greek mythology. Maybe we had some Emerson, Lake & Palmer fans here. Anyway, both chimeras and manticores are chimeric leonine monsters.


Aurelian Florea wrote on Mon, Jan 22, 2024 07:15 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 03:02 PM:

Nasty little Bob, I see what you've done there!


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Mon, Jan 22, 2024 07:52 PM UTC:

Talking about mythology, Bob, it seems that you've opened the Pandora's box :=)

I remember that between Chimaera and Manticore, I prefered the later because Chimaera has been used for other moves and powers by V.R.Parton. Manticore has the advantage that very few people know what is it.

As far as I'm concerned, I prefer to use Rhino but Manticore is not worse. Some pieces may have a name and a nickname :=)


Bob Greenwade wrote on Tue, Jan 23, 2024 12:05 AM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from Mon Jan 22 07:52 PM:

Talking about mythology, Bob, it seems that you've opened the Pandora's box :=)

The last three PotD entries have been a bit of a fiasco, haven't they? If it wasn't clear enough already, this underscores why I don't consider myself anywhere near qualified to volunteer as an Editor.... ;)


Bob Greenwade wrote on Tue, Jan 23, 2024 12:44 AM UTC:

188. Chariot. Usually, Chariot (without any adjectives) is an alternate name for a Rook. However, it also appears as a rotary counterpart to the Nereid (from last Friday), found in the same source. As such, it slides orthogonally like a Rook, but can only capture by jumping over an obstacle and landing on its target in the first space beyond. ([cR-fmW]mR)

Similar to the Nereid illustration, the Chariot here can jump over the White Knight to capture the Black Knight, or approach -- but not leap over or capture -- the Black Pawn (though in this case it's not so risky). It also can move freely directly backward or to the left.

This is basically the root piece used for the Left and Right Chariots from a week ago, increased to match the Nereid's height (6cm).


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Tue, Jan 23, 2024 06:02 AM UTC:

This move is not clear at all for me: "it slides diagonally like a Rook, but can only capture by jumping over an obstacle and landing on the first space beyond."

First, my Rooks do not slide diagonally.

Then, from that text, I don't see the difference with the xiangqi's Cannon.

Finally, I'm not sure to understand the Betza's code, [cR-fmW], I interpret that it capture as a Rook, then it does 1 Wazir non-capturing step in the same direction. Which is not corresponding to the diagram, so I might be wrong. I suggest that you better explain, saying where is the captured piece, before or after the obstacle, or is it the obstacle which is captured, may the obstacle be of any color, etc.


HaruN Y wrote on Tue, Jan 23, 2024 06:10 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 12:44 AM:

Your Nereid is mBcgB. That's not how the Nereid from fairy chess problems moves (the XBetza notation is correct though). In problemist language, the orthogonal counterpart of Nereid is "Triton".


Bob Greenwade wrote on Tue, Jan 23, 2024 04:17 PM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from 06:02 AM:

This move is not clear at all for me: "it slides diagonally like a Rook, but can only capture by jumping over an obstacle and landing on the first space beyond."

First, my Rooks do not slide diagonally.

Then, from that text, I don't see the difference with the xiangqi's Cannon.

Finally, I'm not sure to understand the Betza's code, [cR-fmW], I interpret that it capture as a Rook, then it does 1 Wazir non-capturing step in the same direction. Which is not corresponding to the diagram, so I might be wrong.

The first part is a brain glitch; I meant diagonally, of course.

The rest is just bad writing on my part, yet another thing that needs to be fixed.


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Tue, Jan 23, 2024 06:35 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 04:17 PM:

Sorry to hassle you. You wrote "The first part is a brain glitch; I meant diagonally, of course."

Your brain persists. Rooks are not moving diagonally :=)


Bob Greenwade wrote on Tue, Jan 23, 2024 06:50 PM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from 06:35 PM:

I haven't taken the moment yet to go fix it (at all). I'll get to it presently. :)


Bob Greenwade wrote on Tue, Jan 23, 2024 07:18 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 06:50 PM:

I fixed and clarified the text, but I want to make something clear so help can come in the right form.

Your Nereid is mBcgB. That's not how the Nereid from fairy chess problems moves (the XBetza notation is correct though). In problemist language, the orthogonal counterpart of Nereid is "Triton".

As I stated in the original Nereid listing, I got that piece from the Who is Who on Eight by Eight article, where the Nereid is described simply as "Overtaker B" (and attributed to Grimbert). Similarly, the "Overtaker R" on that list is the Chariot (attributed to QuangTrung). I suspect that all of the move descriptions and XBetza that's been applied to both pieces so far may not fit those, though if they do it's the current XBetza (and I need to fix the descriptions and diagrams).


Bob Greenwade wrote on Tue, Jan 23, 2024 07:35 PM UTC:

189. Aardvark. After all the confusion caused with the preceding four pieces, I decided to go with something (mostly) original today.

Basically, there's been some discussion lately on good names for the Bishop-Dabbaba and Rook-Alfil compounds. Jean-Louis came up with the Badger for the BD, which I thought was brilliant, but the RA has been more of a challenge. I just thought to reverse the letters, and what came to mind first was the Aardvark. (RA)

Of course, Aardvark begins with a double A, so it may seem more logical to make it a Rook with Alfilrider. There's nothing wrong with that, and if it catches on with that move I'll just think of something else for AR (or let someone else do so).

The piece is basically the same as I used for the Anteater* (way back as #3, though it now looks like this), but with a shorter snout.

*Aardvarks are often mistakently thought of as anteaters, in large part because they do eat ants, but they're actually part of a completely different order of mammals. Also, having now seen side-by-side pictures of members of both groups of animal, I may want to switch the pieces' heads.


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Tue, Jan 23, 2024 07:40 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 07:18 PM:

@Bob: maybe look at simplevariant.pdf by G.P.Jelliss

https://www.mayhematics.com/v/simplevariants.pdf

You will find there plenty of informations. For example:

In Maritime chess or Sea chess (G.Brogi Chess Amateur February 1929) the Q, R, B are re- placed by Sea-pieces which move as normal but capture by hopping over the victim to the first square beyond. Sea-Q is known as Siren or Mermaid, Sea-R as Triton, and Sea-B as Nereid. This type of capture is called locust capture. The original problem piece called a Locust was in effect a Sea-Q that moves only to capture.


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Tue, Jan 23, 2024 07:46 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 07:35 PM:

I won't change the pieces of https://www.chessvariants.com/rules/patchanka because I'm satisfied with the tests I've done. I have now made zrf for Zillions, ID and Game Courier. I have even 3D printed the Ram and the Badger. I like them.

What I regret is that it takes so long to publish this game and the GC page.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Tue, Jan 23, 2024 07:48 PM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from 07:40 PM:

Thanks, Jean-Louis. That isn't quite so helpful in this specific case, but it'll be a massive help in another project.


Bn Em wrote on Wed, Jan 24, 2024 01:36 AM UTC:

There's so much confusion surrounding the names for [Gryphon and Rhino] that I'm on the verge of just calling them Merv and Fred. (I'm not entirely kidding.)

And all that because Murray mistook the latter's move description and doomed it to periodic reinvention… Could be worse; they could have as many different names as the RN and BN

De facto this proposal to name the W-then-B a Manticore […] turned out to be a bust; everyone using that piece seems to use a Rhino to represent it. […] Better switch to calling it Rhino…

Whilst as Fergus notes this is not quite true, I would be very tempted to redress the Piececlopedia page to have Rhino as the main name if and when I get around to updating it (I have a file of notes sitting around but have yet to actually do the redraft). The issue I originally noted of the name clash with (another existing page)[/piececlopedia.dir/rhino.html] persists, but it would hardly be unique in that respect.

Though oddly enough, even Rhino as a name seems to only have really taken off after Manticore had established a (however small) presence. It's almost a shame I only read Meta‐Chess after writing that page; JWB calls it a ‘Hydra’, which would have been arguably near‐ideal

And as for graphical representations, I remain partial to Alfaerie's four‐bishops icon used e.g. in the Piececlopedia page: suggestive and devoid of naming controversy :‌)

Aardvark

A nice choice :‌)

the "Overtaker R" on that list is the Chariot (attributed to QuangTrung).

That might be a reference that's possible to track down, though Quang Trung does have a rather large set of ‘editions’ with differences even among identically‐named pieces iirc. Perhaps one to look back up one of these days


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Wed, Jan 24, 2024 06:24 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from Tue Jan 23 07:48 PM:

@Bob: this is a second (and related) source that may interest you, for their inputs on fairy pieces and chess:

https://www.theproblemist.org/dloads/Glossary.pdf

You may know it already though.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Wed, Jan 24, 2024 03:28 PM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from 06:24 AM:

I did not know about that glossary, Jean-Louis, and I expect to find it pretty universally helpful for my chess creations.


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Wed, Jan 24, 2024 04:28 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 03:28 PM:

I wouldn't say these 2 documents are universal. Beware. But they are illustrating how problemists deal with fairy pieces. There are some difference with our universe of chess variants sometimes, not everything corresponds.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Wed, Jan 24, 2024 04:39 PM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from 04:28 PM:

I accept that, but just on a casual perusal of the Glossary I found a couple of helpful ideas.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Wed, Jan 24, 2024 04:41 PM UTC in reply to Bn Em from 01:36 AM:

Aardvark

A nice choice :‌)

Thank you! :) I do try.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Wed, Jan 24, 2024 06:58 PM UTC:

190. Tiger Horse. This is another piece from Adrian King's infamous game Jupiter, and one with quite a complex move. It can move normally like a Ferz, Camel, or Squirrel. If it captures using a Knight's move, then it may move again to any orthogonal space, capturing again if there's an enemy piece there. (FANDC[cN-cmW])

The move icons show the piece's basic moves, while the blue arrows show moves that can take place after a Knight's capture.

Note: The rotary counterpart to this would be WANDHZ[cN-cmF] in XBetza. Does anyone have any name suggestions for that?

The term "tiger horse" refers to a breed of horse that, rather than striped like a tiger as the name suggests, has large, bold spots. Rather than go with accuracy, though, I decided to base the piece off the name, and use a Knight piece with stripes like a Tiger. It's distinctive from the Zebra in that the latter's stripes are straight, while these are triangular.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Thu, Jan 25, 2024 05:06 PM UTC:

191. Berolina Plus Pawn. This piece was actually invented at about the same time as the regular, more familiar Berolina Pawn, though it's clearly never caught on as well. Its move is the same as its "non-plussed" cousin, with the addition (that's the "Plus" part) that it can capture to the left and right as well as forward. (mfFcfsWimfA)

I understand that a series of test games were done with one side using orthodox Pawns and the other using regular Berolina Pawns, with the result that there was little to no difference in ability. That would make the Berolina Plus Pawn a bit more powerful, and I'd like to see what they can do in an actual game.

The form was a pretty easy choice; just add the "plus sign" to a regular Berolina Pawn.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Fri, Jan 26, 2024 06:34 PM UTC:

192. Yal. This is another piece out of my Tifinagh set. While the letter yal makes the sound of an L, it's shaped very much like the Roman letter H. Thus, it steps sideways one space, and from that point slides orthogonally forward or backward. ([sW-sR])

Because of its similarity to H, this piece could (if desired) be renamed H for a game with no other modifications.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Sat, Jan 27, 2024 04:57 PM UTC:

193. Nova and 194. Purifier. These connect back about a month, to the Morningstar and Faith Healer. The Nova and Purifier are compounds with those pieces, but with the opposing directions.

The Nova compounds the Rook with the Faith Healer. As a refresher, the Faith Healer's path moves one step diagonally, then turns 45 degrees to step orthogonally, and then turns 45 degrees again in the same direction to continue diagonally at a 90 degree angle from the original direction. (R[F?W?qfB])

The Morningstar's path is the orthogonal counterpart to the Faith Healer's: it moves one step orthogonally, then turns 45 degrees to step diagonally, and then turns 45 degrees again in the same direction to continue orthogonally at a 90 degree angle from the original direction. The Purifier adds to that a Bishop's diagonal slide. (B[W?F?qfR])

These are very strong pieces that I think would do well on a large board with long leapers.

The Purifier in particular was difficult to design, conceptually -- even more difficult than trying to decide which piece should have which move.


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